Go Back   AFA Forums > Secularism and Social Issues > Politics

Politics Political issues which help or hinder our society

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1351  
Old 12th December 2016, 10:14 AM
DanDare's Avatar
DanDare DanDare is offline
Religion or Reality, choose...
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 7,446
Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

Quote:
Spearthrower said View Post
My tutor at UCL always maintained, over a glass of beer, that the USA was going to have a huge civil war and would eventually break up.
Interestingly California could separate and become and independent nation and the US would lose a huge amount of its wealth and creative resources. California itself would still be a successful nation, however with a belligerent and decaying nation next door.

I used to think they couldn't do this without the rust belt states as well but times and technology have changed that equation.
__________________
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
-Thomas Jefferson

Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.
Reply With Quote
Like Spearthrower, Strato liked this post
  #1352  
Old 12th December 2016, 10:27 AM
DanDare's Avatar
DanDare DanDare is offline
Religion or Reality, choose...
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 7,446
Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

Quote:
wolty said View Post
To avoid being misled in the same way as Trump voters are I have traced this back to primary sources.

First The Rachel Madow show itself.

Then the actual Pew report.
__________________
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
-Thomas Jefferson

Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.

Last edited by DanDare; 12th December 2016 at 10:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #1353  
Old 12th December 2016, 11:08 AM
pipbarber's Avatar
pipbarber pipbarber is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,918
Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

Thanks for the link to pew, Dan. I really like some of the stuff they put out. On the surface, an independent California, along with Washington State and Oregon perhaps, seems to be a great idea but it could only happen if there is some major governmental collapse - it cannot be done legally (from my understanding). Moreover, all military assets would belong to the federal government along with real estate and other government assets that presumably California would have to purchase. Succession would be insanely complex and it would probably send the newly formed state broke!

I guess the only way it could be done amicably and practically would be for all states to support succession and to change the constitution. That is never going to happen given what California brings to the table.

I think its a pleasant enough fantasy, but just a fantasy.
Reply With Quote
  #1354  
Old 12th December 2016, 11:38 AM
DanDare's Avatar
DanDare DanDare is offline
Religion or Reality, choose...
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 7,446
Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

Quote:
pipbarber said View Post
I think its a pleasant enough fantasy, but just a fantasy.
Its note a fantasy but a possible goal. If some people want to try to achieve it in a realistic way they would have to work and think hard. On the way the goal would probably morph to something else though. My guess would be constitutional change after some ...unpleasantness. That would only be good if there was also social change, much harder to do on purpose.
__________________
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
-Thomas Jefferson

Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.
Reply With Quote
  #1355  
Old 12th December 2016, 01:22 PM
wolty's Avatar
wolty wolty is online now
This space for rent
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 24,266
Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump



I do agree.

Noting that the majority that voted for Trump were above average earners, I think Trump supporters really are racist sexist fascists.

As noted above, they support someone that openly mocked a disabled person and talked of sexually assaulting women. That is exactly who Trump supporters are. Bigots who are enablers of sexual assault and racism. Own that shit.
__________________
.
.
.


The Nizkor Project- Logical Fallacies

Atheist: n; A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others.
—Chaz Bufe, The American Heretic’s Dictionary

Last edited by wolty; 12th December 2016 at 01:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #1356  
Old 12th December 2016, 05:42 PM
Strato's Avatar
Strato Strato is offline
What Me Deluded?
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: The Bellarine, Geelong.
Posts: 5,479
Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

The Guardian,

Quote:
Carle, the retired CIA officer, said Trump’s temperament had played into Russia’s hands and put the president-elect on a collision course with the CIA.

He said: “Look, in my professional assessment as an intelligence officer, Trump has a reflexive, defensive, monumentally narcissistic personality, for whom the facts and national interest are irrelevant, and the only thing that counts is whatever gives personal advantage and directs attention to himself.

“He is about the juiciest intelligence target an intelligence office could imagine. He groans with vulnerabilities. He will only work with individuals or entities that agree with him and build him up, and he is a shockingly easy intelligence ‘target’ to manipulate.”

Were Trump an intelligence officer himself, Carle said, “he would be removed and possibly charged with having accepted the clandestine support of a hostile power to the harm of the United States”.
Clearly Trump doesn't have the temperament to be president, nor the mentality.

He completely lacks discretion. How could he be entrusted with top secret intelligence and strategic plans, when to divulge that he is privy to such stuff renders him so unbelievably important? He is consumed with his grandiosity. He could not restrain himself from advertising it to the point of committing high treason. He has never before had to practise discretion. He also is utterly prone to impulsivity.

He is also vindictive down to the ground. There will be purges. Possible mutiny. It's probable. But who is going to arraign him?

More from the article in The Guardian,

Intelligence figures fear Trump reprisals over assessment of Russia election role

Quote:
Legislators overseeing the CIA and other intelligence agencies have told the Guardian they will be vigilant about reprisals from Donald Trump over an internal assessment that Russia intervened in the 2016 election to ensure Trump’s victory.

Fears of retaliation rose within US intelligence agencies over a tense weekend that saw Trump publicly dismiss not only the assessment but the basic competence of the intelligence apparatus.

“When the president-elect’s transition team is attempting to discredit the entire intelligence community [IC], it has never been more important for the IC and Congress to guard against possible political pressure or retaliation against intelligence analysts,” Ron Wyden, an Oregon Democrat on the Senate intelligence committee, told the Guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...d-trump-russia
__________________
Life Sucks Then You Die - The Fools.
In The Blank Slate Steven Pinker negates the credo .
Reply With Quote
  #1357  
Old 12th December 2016, 06:06 PM
pipbarber's Avatar
pipbarber pipbarber is offline
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,918
Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

Think One Nation. Really, a bunch of under educated non politicians riding their own agendas to parliament on the back of the country's worst character traits. They always implode because that is not politics (from a Bernard Crickian perspective) they don't know how to do it, they just dont get it.

I'm going glass half full here. The Trump admin will lurch from one crisis to the next and the GOP will weaken in its support in parliament. The people he is appointing, and the Trump himself, are just not smart enough or experienced enough to run a government, it will become obvious.

When you ask, 'But who is going to arraign him?,' i'd wager everyone! People will jump of his wagon quicker than an alcoholic gets out of the middle east.

Of course, this is assuming the US is still actually a liberal democracy.
Reply With Quote
Like Strato liked this post
  #1358  
Old 12th December 2016, 06:17 PM
Strato's Avatar
Strato Strato is offline
What Me Deluded?
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: The Bellarine, Geelong.
Posts: 5,479
Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

So over sobering news. I feel like going on a bender.

I won't do it. I'd like to think that I am needed.
__________________
Life Sucks Then You Die - The Fools.
In The Blank Slate Steven Pinker negates the credo .
Reply With Quote
  #1359  
Old 12th December 2016, 06:17 PM
stylofone's Avatar
stylofone stylofone is offline
I am no feeble Christ, not me.
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,117
Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

There's also Clive Palmer as a comparison.

I wonder when the deplorables will get bored and actually expect some factories to reopen, i.e. will the slogans be enough or will they actually expect promises to be kept.

Also, I'm imagining what it must be like to be in the EPA or the CIA or any number of government departments right now. I can't see many of them being proactive in implementing Trump's policies. They'll all work to rule with the support of many of their own managers, and they'lll make the White House spell it out letter by letter.

Quote:
pipbarber said View Post
Think One Nation. Really, a bunch of under educated non politicians riding their own agendas to parliament on the back of the country's worst character traits. They always implode because that is not politics (from a Bernard Crickian perspective) they don't know how to do it, they just dont get it.

I'm going glass half full here. The Trump admin will lurch from one crisis to the next and the GOP will weaken in its support in parliament. The people he is appointing, and the Trump himself, are just not smart enough or experienced enough to run a government, it will become obvious.

When you ask, 'But who is going to arraign him?,' i'd wager everyone! People will jump of his wagon quicker than an alcoholic gets out of the middle east.

Of course, this is assuming the US is still actually a liberal democracy.
Reply With Quote
Like pipbarber liked this post
  #1360  
Old 12th December 2016, 06:21 PM
Strato's Avatar
Strato Strato is offline
What Me Deluded?
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: The Bellarine, Geelong.
Posts: 5,479
Default Re: President-Elect Donald Trump

If California secedes, so could Queensland, for different reasons.
__________________
Life Sucks Then You Die - The Fools.
In The Blank Slate Steven Pinker negates the credo .
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 08:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.