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  #221  
Old 3rd February 2015, 01:18 AM
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Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

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DanDare said View Post
This stuff is so ugly. Enclave after enclave of mind warped conservative religinuts covering up rape and dreadful abuse, and piling psychological abuse on top of it. Its truly foul.
As it happens, here's another situation exactly like that, apparently. ATM, certain Jewish institutions are appearing at the Commission.

Child sex abuse royal commission: Jewish 'code of silence' at Yeshivah centres under spotlight at inquiry
Quote:
Child abuse victims and their families have been abused and ostracised by people within the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community for breaking the Chabad code of silence, the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse has heard.
The role of the Jewish law and the concept of Mesirah, the religious code dictating Jewish people do not report or "hand over" other Jewish people to the authorities, will form part of the inquiry into abuse at the Yeshivah centres in Melbourne and Bondi.
...
Counsel assisting the commission Maria Gerace said evidence would be given about abuse perpetrated by three convicted child abusers, Cyprys, David Kramer and Daniel Hayman, and the commission would look at when Jewish leaders first heard of allegations and their responses.
Child abuse victim Manny Waks said he also told Rabbi Groner of the abuse he was subjected to.
He told the inquiry he reported the abuse to Rabbi Groner in the 1990s and in 2000s, but Cyprys continued to work as a security guard at the centre.
"He [Rabbi Groner] practically pleaded with me not to pursue the matter," Mr Waks said.
Mr Waks told the commission he felt "let down by the system" as his complaints to the Yeshiva leaders, and his initial complaints to police, went ignored.
He said he and his family had faced backlash for "breaking the Chabad code of silence", as many within the Chabad community believed it would increase anti-Semitism.
Mr Waks read out a critical email sent to him after he went public about the abuse.
"Get over it already," the email said.
"There is something very ugly and personal about your anti-Yeshivah campaign.
"Just because a security guard molested you, don't blame Yeshivah.
"Most people consider you a low life... because of your malicious blame game."
Mr Waks became emotional when he described the impact of the intimidation on his wife.
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  #222  
Old 3rd February 2015, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

Quote:
"Get over it already," the email said.
"There is something very ugly and personal about your anti-Yeshivah campaign.
"Just because a security guard molested you, don't blame Yeshivah.
"Most people consider you a low life... because of your malicious blame game."
This is sick victim blaming. All attempts to make an accused face the consequences of their crime can be labelled as a "Blame Game". What total contempt for the victim, for the law, for civilisation.
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  #223  
Old 5th February 2015, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

Ah, just when I thought that the Catholics had a monopoly on
the rape of children it seems that the Jews are at it as well.

Any bets on which of these great moral institutions are next
to be found out?

I'd put my money on Islam but hey, it could just as easily be
the Hindus
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  #224  
Old 7th February 2015, 03:23 AM
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Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

I have come across some abject failures to "get it" in my time... but this one has to be right at the top of the list:

Child abuse royal commission: Sydney rabbi 'did not know' it was a crime for an adult to touch a child's genitals
Quote:
Rabbi Yosef Feldman was questioned about the way he dealt with abuse claims against a rabbinical student known as AVL at the Yeshivah Gedolah in Sydney in 2002.
Counsel assisting the Commission Maria Gerace asked: "did you understand that it was against the law for an adult to touch the genitals of another child?"
"I didn't know that as a fact," Rabbi Feldman answered.
The Commission heard AVL admitted lying down and massaging the child.
The rabbi said he "didn't have a clue" that could be a criminal matter.
"My role in general is to look at things from a Jewish perspective, from a religious perspective," Rabbi Feldman said.
"I'm not in the business of thinking about how society would deal with issues."
AVL left the country less than 48 hours after a complaint was made against him in 2002.
...
Rabbi Feldman told the Commission he did not think child sexual abuse was a widespread problem.
"There are many issues of life, and child sex abuse I didn't believe was something that's very common at all, and even now I don't believe it's common. It happens," he said.
"I haven't seen the statistics, but I think it would be ... about five to 10 per cent ... based on things that I've read about it."
Rabbi Feldman said he was not aware of the issue of child sexual abuse or mandatory reporting obligations in 2002.
Commissioner Robert Fitzgerald asked: "are you saying to the Commission that notwithstanding you were a director of a school, an ordinary school, you had no knowledge at all of the issue of child sexual abuse, nor of the requirements that existed in New South Wales at that time, is that your evidence?''
"Correct," Rabbi Feldman replied.
...
The rabbi was strongly criticised in 2011 for questioning whether child molestation should be immediately reported to the police, in an email to other rabbis
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  #225  
Old 10th February 2015, 12:21 AM
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Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

^^ And then the same Rabbi doubled-down on his "failures to get it". Repentant child abusers should not have to be reported, rabbi says
Quote:
A victim of child sex abuse should not necessarily go to police if the perpetrator has not offended for decades and the abuser has repented to God, a senior Jewish leader has told a royal commission.
Rabbi Yosef Feldman also said rabbinical organisations issuing statements to the media in support of abuse victims might prompt “fake victims” to go to police, and proven victims to exaggerate their stories.
"Fake victims"? "Exaggerate their stories"? Did he really say that? Umm... yup:
Quote:
Rabbi Feldman lashed out at the media, saying publicity about child sex abuse "encourages even people who may not be real victims or may want to be considered heroes" to go to the police.
"Like we have seen here in Melbourne, we had one rabbi who was ultimately vindicated, and I was very against too much of a public situation, like I see with the media also, they go out in a very public way, and also exaggerating, at times lying," he said.
"I'm worried about the effect of the hype of child abuse."
I thought that nothing could disgust me more than Pell's performances in the same fora, but I stand corrected, unfortunately... *smfh*
Quote:
“Even for victims, knowing repentance is a big thing, they would understand how repentance is the main point. They should respect that specifically – if they [the perpetrators] have repented and if they have [paedophilic] tendencies, and don’t act on that.”
And who died and gave you any authority to decide what justice and reparation should look like.. on behalf of VICTIMS???
Quote:
The commission also heard that less than 24 hours after Feldman issued a statement on behalf of the Rabbinical Council of New South Wales in 2011 encouraging victims to report abuse to police, he emailed a senior rabbi within Yeshivah to say he was concerned an alleged perpetrator and friend under investigation by police, David Cyprys, was being treated unfairly “for no good reason”.
He was rigorously challenged on that course of action by counsel assisting the commission, Maria Gerace, who put it to Feldman that the email was evidence that the statement he issued on behalf of the rabbinical council was not genuine.
“Not more than 24 hours before, you had issued your own statement saying that you unequivocally supported allegations being reported to police,” Gerace said. “And as soon it has practical effect for someone you know, you raise a complaint.
“Your concern is only for Cyprys, not the victims there.”
Feldman responded: “I think it’s unfair, the way I’m being questioned.”
Boo hoo. Cry me a fucking river.
Quote:
But Gerace pressed Feldman on why he issued the council statement while he was simultaneously questioning the legitimacy of abuse claims.
Feldman said: “The only reason we [the council] got involved is because we were being criticised about why we weren’t coming out with a public statement.”
“I have no problem coming to the Jewish community, but to go to media I think it’s bad for the Jews.”
By all means, keep digging.
Quote:
The statement said victims should go to police because that was what secular law dictated, he said.
“That’s what needs to be done, unfortunately, because that’s the law,” he said. “But if the law could be changed ... but since it is the law we have to follow the law.”
Welcome to the real world. This is why law and religion should be kept completely separate.
Quote:
Feldman told the commission he believed “too much hype” about child sex abuse encouraged false allegations.
“By saying everyone can go report [abuse] could encourage even real victims to exaggerate, and that’s not good,” Feldman said. “My opinion is the less the media is involved, the better it is to protect the victims.”
I don't think I need to say a thing about that. In fact, there are no words, TBH...
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  #226  
Old 10th February 2015, 12:58 AM
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Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

Quote:
Logic please said View Post
I don't think I need to say a thing about that. In fact, there are no words, TBH...
I can think of a few words...

It is revealing that we see this particular trope repeated. "Going to the authorities is bad for the victims." So many officials on the same page about that one.
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Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

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  #227  
Old 10th February 2015, 01:20 AM
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Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

@LP

House of 'fucking" cards comes to mind.
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  #228  
Old 11th February 2015, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

Catholic church fought sex abuse victim's claims to deter others, inquiry finds
Royal commission finds church repeatedly failed in its treatment of victims at the hands of its clergy


Quote:
Cardinal George Pell and the Sydney archdiocese fought a legal claim by an abuse victim, John Ellis, to discourage others from attempting the same, the royal commission has found. It also confirmed the Catholic church repeatedly failed in its dealings with victims of child sexual abuse at the hands of clergy.



Among its 34 findings into the Ellis case, the royal commission said it agreed with Pell’s statement during hearings that “the archdiocese, the trustees and he as archbishop did not act fairly from a Christian point of view in the conduct of the litigation against Mr Ellis”.

The royal commission’s report into Towards Healing found a raft of “systemic issues” in the Catholic church.

...


More detail from The Guardian.

Full reports of the Royal Commission available here.
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  #229  
Old 11th February 2015, 09:51 PM
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Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

Re the findings on the Catholic church, I recommend David Marr's "The Prince" which covers off a lot of this story.

Re Feldman: it will be noted that like the Catholics, having had their offences made undeniable, the broader religious organisation has people saying"well, that's wrong, we need to do something about that".

I was listening to a story about this on the radio this arvo including bits of an exerpt from Waks where he made the point, among other things, that while Feldman said all these awful things, at least he is honest, plenty of Rabbis thing the same way but don't come out with it. I find that quite believable.
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  #230  
Old 11th February 2015, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

I disagree with the thought that the Catholic Church acted in an unchristian manner, though. Deception, thinking themselves above the law, and abuse are all boilerplate Catholic conduct.
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