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  #41  
Old 11th August 2017, 08:17 PM
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Default Re: Liberal Party votes no change on same-sex marriage policy

This survey is actually quite an interesting insight into the notion of direct democracy (though non-binding). Personally, I find the direct democracy concept horrifying, it is rule by the mob. Hideous, dangerous and potentially tyrannical. Normally, direct democracy advocates come from the 'left', or so it seems to me, so this is interesting from a political theory perspective. Ghastly, obviously, but every functioning representative democracy in the world should take note of what is about transpire here.
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  #42  
Old 11th August 2017, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: Liberal Party votes no change on same-sex marriage policy

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pipbarber said View Post
This survey is actually quite an interesting insight into the notion of direct democracy (though non-binding). Personally, I find the direct democracy concept horrifying, it is rule by the mob. Hideous, dangerous and potentially tyrannical. Normally, direct democracy advocates come from the 'left', or so it seems to me, so this is interesting from a political theory perspective. Ghastly, obviously, but every functioning representative democracy in the world should take note of what is about transpire here.
Representative democracy has, in much of the world, been corrupted and turned into a farce over the past few decades.

Direct democracy is dangerous, as you say.

We need something better than either of these options.
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  #43  
Old 12th August 2017, 10:23 AM
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Default Re: Liberal Party votes no change on same-sex marriage policy

Same-sex marriage: Government to rush bill to make postal vote campaign hate-free

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Parliament is likely to rush through a bill next week to stop hateful advertising material being distributed as part of the same-sex marriage postal vote.

Acting Special Minister of State Mathias Cormann said the legislation would apply the same advertising restrictions that are in place for ordinary elections, which prohibit malicious campaigning and bribery.

Labor, the Greens and crossbench senators have all expressed concern hateful or misleading material could be distributed during the campaign.
So, no more pandering to the haters?
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  #44  
Old 12th August 2017, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: Liberal Party votes no change on same-sex marriage policy

Did he really say;


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Acting Special Minister of State Mathias Cormann said the legislation would apply the same advertising restrictions that are in place for ordinary elections,

This then must be an extraordinary election, and if they lose they will be obliged to step down as government in place of someone else? A person reading that could well take it as an election, maybe we should insist if the same rules apply as an "ordinary election" they step down when they lose!
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  #45  
Old 12th August 2017, 11:39 AM
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Default Re: Liberal Party votes no change on same-sex marriage policy

@SteveB: No, merely that the same ad restrictions would apply.
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  #46  
Old 12th August 2017, 11:51 AM
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Default Re: Liberal Party votes no change on same-sex marriage policy

Lets not forget, there are plenty of MPs within the coalition that support marriage equality.

Are there any known Labor members that oppose it?
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  #47  
Old 12th August 2017, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: Liberal Party votes no change on same-sex marriage policy

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pipbarber said View Post
Lets not forget, there are plenty of MPs within the coalition that support marriage equality.

Are there any known Labor members that oppose it?
At least one
Quote:
ON GAY MARRIAGE ...
SHAYNE NEUMANN (ALP)
MY position is that love is a wonderful virtue and if we can find love in a nasty, cruel world it's a good thing.
But my position is that marriage is between a man and a woman.
It's a conscience vote in the ALP. That's the way I voted in committee and that's the way I voted in Federal Parliament.
I was proud to get rid of 84 pieces of legislation that discriminated against gay and lesbian couples in areas of employment, superannuation tax, in family, war and other types of areas.
I believe that we should cherish love, but my religious views and my polling of the electorate also showed me, when I asked people to respond, the overwhelming number of people in our electorate here in Blair were opposed to gay marriage. That's the way I voted.
If the bill comes up as it probably will, by private members bill in the next parliament, I will gauge the views of the local community.
I will find out what they have to say and I will examine my conscience. My position at the moment is unchanged. I believe historically and legally, and culturally and religiously, that marriage is between a man and a woman.
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  #48  
Old 12th August 2017, 12:12 PM
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Default Re: Liberal Party votes no change on same-sex marriage policy


Quote:
"Whether I sign a letter with Bill Shorten, I will reflect on whether that is useful.

"It may actually be counter-productive." (To my leadership of the LNP)
Fixed that for him.
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  #49  
Old 12th August 2017, 12:15 PM
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Default Re: Liberal Party votes no change on same-sex marriage policy

Quote:
The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
Quote:
pipbarber said View Post
Lets not forget, there are plenty of MPs within the coalition that support marriage equality.

Are there any known Labor members that oppose it?
At least one
Quote:
ON GAY MARRIAGE ...
SHAYNE NEUMANN (ALP)
MY position is that love is a wonderful virtue and if we can find love in a nasty, cruel world it's a good thing.
But my position is that marriage is between a man and a woman.
It's a conscience vote in the ALP. That's the way I voted in committee and that's the way I voted in Federal Parliament.
I was proud to get rid of 84 pieces of legislation that discriminated against gay and lesbian couples in areas of employment, superannuation tax, in family, war and other types of areas.
I believe that we should cherish love, but my religious views and my polling of the electorate also showed me, when I asked people to respond, the overwhelming number of people in our electorate here in Blair were opposed to gay marriage. That's the way I voted.
If the bill comes up as it probably will, by private members bill in the next parliament, I will gauge the views of the local community.
I will find out what they have to say and I will examine my conscience. My position at the moment is unchanged. I believe historically and legally, and culturally and religiously, that marriage is between a man and a woman.
There's one other who's name escapes me. But only the two that I am aware of.

The numbers for a free vote took into account the two ALP dissenters. And also took into account the cross-bench. So with the 5 LNP affirmative members the vote
was at least a couple of votes for ME.
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Atheist: n; A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others.
—Chaz Bufe, The American Heretic’s Dictionary
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  #50  
Old 12th August 2017, 02:33 PM
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Default Re: Liberal Party votes no change on same-sex marriage policy

[SHAYNE NEUMANN (ALP)
MY position is that love is a wonderful virtue and if we can find love in a nasty, cruel world it's a good thing.
But my position is that marriage is between a man and a woman.]


The second sentence contradicts the first. It's like saying "No offence but.."
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