Go Back   AFA Forums > Secularism and Social Issues > Ethics and Justice

Ethics and Justice Ethics, morality, and justice in society

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #71  
Old 8th September 2017, 10:01 PM
MikeJay MikeJay is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,302
Default Re: Welfare Users?

Quote:
Goldenmane said View Post
Does that happen, though? I've never known it to happen. Normally, Jerome either gives his business to his kids or sells the fucking thing.
It sure does, scale it down and there have been plenty of business owners with a handful to a few hundred employees that just up stumps.

Or just look at our auto industry, the owners have deemed it too much effort and are just up and leaving, I'm guessing that if Ford Australia's owners were offered a personal income tax break that would net them more the more they got the business to earn, they'd probably still be here, making an effort to make the industry viable again.

Last edited by MikeJay; 8th September 2017 at 10:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 8th September 2017, 10:09 PM
Goldenmane's Avatar
Goldenmane Goldenmane is offline
Cuss-tard
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 7,246
Default Re: Welfare Users?

Quote:
MikeJay said View Post
Quote:
Goldenmane said View Post
Does that happen, though? I've never known it to happen. Normally, Jerome either gives his business to his kids or sells the fucking thing.
It sure does, scale it down and there have been plenty of business owners with a handful to a few hundred employees that just up stumps.
Scale it down?

Your own example had them employing 2000 workers.

Quote:
Or just look at our auto industry, the owners have deemed it too much effort and are just up and leaving.
Details, please.
__________________
-Geoff Rogers

@Goldenmane3


Last edited by Goldenmane; 8th September 2017 at 10:10 PM. Reason: tags
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 8th September 2017, 10:10 PM
Stub King's Avatar
Stub King Stub King is offline
Take my advice, don't listen to me
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 827
Default Re: Welfare Users?

Quote:
MikeJay said View Post

2. It's businesses that create and sell a product or service that creates economic demand for that product, not the other way around. If there was no product there is no economic demand. You can't confuse wishful thinking or desire for a thing with economic demand for a thing, they're not the same thing.
according to this, every business is an instant success. now who is wishfully thinking?
__________________
The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it. (Osho)
Reply With Quote
Like The Irreverent Mr Black, loubert liked this post
  #74  
Old 8th September 2017, 11:43 PM
Wrenn Wrenn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 311
Default Re: Welfare Users?

Quote:
odd said View Post
Mike Jay is a fan of Ayn Rand - the problem with Ayn Rand is that she was writing about brilliant business people who were fighting against a type of government that doesn't actually exist in reality - it was a strawman.
Hang on, are you telling me that all the sci-fi/fantasy novels I have been wasting my life reading aren't actually true?!?
Reply With Quote
Laugh at The Irreverent Mr Black laughed at this post
  #75  
Old 9th September 2017, 09:01 AM
LadyGreen's Avatar
LadyGreen LadyGreen is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 146
Default Re: Welfare Users?

Jerome can just pay his fucking taxes like the rest of us.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 9th September 2017, 09:06 AM
The Irreverent Mr Black's Avatar
The Irreverent Mr Black The Irreverent Mr Black is offline
There will be bacon
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Toontown
Posts: 4,006
Default Re: Welfare Users?

Quote:
Goldenmane said View Post
Quote:
MikeJay said View Post
Quote:
Stub King said View Post
stop right here.

1. Jerome is a person, his business is a corporation. these are two different legal entities and to equate them with each other is a fallacy. he does not employ anyone, the company does. he does not generate anything, the company does
2. Company did fuck all other than meet demand. if people - just like Jerome and his employees - had not demanded the products, this whole story collapses in a screaming heap. so if anything, Jerome should donate most of his salary to the consumers who wanted his products and made the company and his job possible.
3. owing to these two, there is no reason in the world to treat Jerome other than like an employee who gets a salary and pays his taxes like everybody else.
1. Jerome decides he's made enough, had enough, and wants to retire, he liquidates his assets, fires everyone and closes the business, now tell me Jerome isn't his business.
Does that happen, though? I've never known it to happen. Normally, Jerome either gives his business to his kids or sells the fucking thing.
Sometimes. CJerome asset-strips the biz, moves the funds to somewhere like the Caymans, and leaves many creditors, workers, etc, shall way say "without a nickel".
__________________


Won't somebody park a bus in front of the implosion?

Reply With Quote
Like 142857 liked this post
  #77  
Old 9th September 2017, 11:43 AM
142857's Avatar
142857 142857 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,172
Default Re: Welfare Users?

Quote:
MikeJay said View Post
It sure does, scale it down and there have been plenty of business owners with a handful to a few hundred employees that just up stumps.

Or just look at our auto industry, the owners have deemed it too much effort and are just up and leaving, I'm guessing that if Ford Australia's owners were offered a personal income tax break that would net them more the more they got the business to earn, they'd probably still be here, making an effort to make the industry viable again.
I drove past a Ford dealership yesterday.

No sign of Ford up and leaving. In fact that dealership has recently upgraded their showroom to fit all the new Mustangs and Everests they are selling.

It's called globalisation.
__________________
".....If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but...will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

- Marcus Aurelius (claimed)
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 9th September 2017, 12:38 PM
The Irreverent Mr Black's Avatar
The Irreverent Mr Black The Irreverent Mr Black is offline
There will be bacon
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Toontown
Posts: 4,006
Default Re: Welfare Users?

__________________


Won't somebody park a bus in front of the implosion?

Reply With Quote
Like 142857 liked this post
  #79  
Old 9th September 2017, 07:40 PM
Goldenmane's Avatar
Goldenmane Goldenmane is offline
Cuss-tard
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 7,246
Default Re: Welfare Users?

Quote:
The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
Quote:
Goldenmane said View Post
Quote:
MikeJay said View Post
Quote:
Stub King said View Post
stop right here.

1. Jerome is a person, his business is a corporation. these are two different legal entities and to equate them with each other is a fallacy. he does not employ anyone, the company does. he does not generate anything, the company does
2. Company did fuck all other than meet demand. if people - just like Jerome and his employees - had not demanded the products, this whole story collapses in a screaming heap. so if anything, Jerome should donate most of his salary to the consumers who wanted his products and made the company and his job possible.
3. owing to these two, there is no reason in the world to treat Jerome other than like an employee who gets a salary and pays his taxes like everybody else.
1. Jerome decides he's made enough, had enough, and wants to retire, he liquidates his assets, fires everyone and closes the business, now tell me Jerome isn't his business.
Does that happen, though? I've never known it to happen. Normally, Jerome either gives his business to his kids or sells the fucking thing.
Sometimes. CJerome asset-strips the biz, moves the funds to somewhere like the Caymans, and leaves many creditors, workers, etc, shall way say "without a nickel".
Aye, Mr B, but that's not the scenario presented, is it? The scenario presented is: Jerome, fine upstanding citizen and employer of 2000 people plus, decides that he's made enough money and wants to retire, so he liquidates his assets and fires everyone, and closes the business.

That never fucking happens. Your scenario is much more on the money, and usually done roughly a step ahead of the nefarious scumbag being hauled up on various criminal charges.

The reality is that Mike's scenario is entirely fucking fictional. No-one shuts down a business simply because they want to retire and feel they've made enough money. They either give it to their kids, or sell it, making that last big score. They only liquidate when doing literally anything else is going to fuck them three ways sideways.
__________________
-Geoff Rogers

@Goldenmane3

Reply With Quote
Like LadyGreen liked this post
Thank The Irreverent Mr Black thanked this post
  #80  
Old 11th September 2017, 02:33 PM
MikeJay MikeJay is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,302
Default Re: Welfare Users?

Quote:
Stub King said View Post
according to this, every business is an instant success. now who is wishfully thinking?
No they're not, but also nothing to do with what I said.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 11:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.