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  #41  
Old 2nd September 2017, 12:09 PM
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Default Re: Welfare Users?

Quote:
wadaye said View Post
I agree with everything here except that I would say it is sinister even if it is done openly.
I meant 'sinister' in a sense of them trying to deceive.
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  #42  
Old 3rd September 2017, 09:14 PM
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Lord Blackadder said View Post
Bring on the Universal Basic Income. It's an idea whose time has come.


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I had a 12 year career with the Dept of Social Security and Centrelink (in case anyone here needs further reason to hiss my way) and I couldn't agree more.

Every single person gets it, no questions asked, but you may opt to have it paid to a charity of your choice instead.

The complexity that exists in the system, the over-payments that exist in the system, the money spent on identifying and recovering over-payments, and the welfare caste system whereby some recipients are "deserving" of help and others are only deserving of scapegoating, would all be a thing of the past.

If it could be shown to be workable and affordable, I'm all for it. And I believe both of those things have already been demonstrated as non-obstacles elsewhere.

the savings in administration, along with savings in health and criminal activity alone would pay a big chunk of it.
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  #43  
Old 3rd September 2017, 11:44 PM
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Default Re: Welfare Users?

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gpfloor said View Post
I had a 12 year career with the Dept of Social Security and Centrelink (in case anyone here needs further reason to hiss my way)
I doubt any such hissing likely. I've had some bad experiences with people in those roles, but being in those roles doesn't make them bad people. Others here have also had similarly bad experiences, but generally aren't immediately inclined to dismiss (or hiss at) people.

Generally speaking, we tend toward awareness of nuance.
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  #44  
Old 4th September 2017, 11:08 AM
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gpfloor gpfloor is offline
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Goldenmane said View Post
I doubt any such hissing likely. I've had some bad experiences with people in those roles, but being in those roles doesn't make them bad people. Others here have also had similarly bad experiences, but generally aren't immediately inclined to dismiss (or hiss at) people.

Generally speaking, we tend toward awareness of nuance.
And generally speaking still, Geoff, some people who are aware of nuance don't care about that. They will just seize on whatever comes their way to "confirm" their bias.

If that applies here to anyone, I don't know. Haven't been around long enough to make a call. I do know it applies on most forums regardless of what the forum is about, or how smart the members or, or how smart they like to think they are.

Any large organization or group has its share of dropkicks, whether that be Centrelink, the Senate, your local RSL, or the AFA.
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  #45  
Old 5th September 2017, 08:25 PM
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Default Re: Welfare Users?

This has very little to do with making social welfare work better, and everything to do with the sort of dog whistling that the Murdoch Press excels at.

Creating an impression of dole bludgers as being lazy, as living a life with the luxury of YOUR tax dollars in their pocket to spend however they want, and portraying certain parties as enabling this sort of behaviour while the tough-but-fair conservatives seek to put a stop to it, is what this is all about.
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  #46  
Old 5th September 2017, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: Welfare Users?

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142857 said View Post
This has very little to do with making social welfare work better, and everything to do with the sort of dog whistling that the Murdoch Press excels at.

Creating an impression of dole bludgers as being lazy, as living a life with the luxury of YOUR tax dollars in their pocket to spend however they want, and portraying certain parties as enabling this sort of behaviour while the tough-but-fair conservatives seek to put a stop to it, is what this is all about.
Considering Murdoch not only pays no/negilgible Oz tax, but managed to get given some obscene sum ($882 Million) in 2014, he's a fine mongrel to be dog-whistling.
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  #47  
Old 5th September 2017, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: Welfare Users?

Today's dog-whistle in the Murdoch press:

http://www.news.com.au/finance/econo...e2557c3ad34dc9

Quote:
But Senator Leyonhjelm slammed the federal government’s war on cash, describing it as the biggest threat currently facing the freedom of everyday Australians. “This pursuit of the black economy is probably the biggest threat to our liberty of all,” Senator Leyonhjelm said.

“This idea that you’ve got to be more regulated otherwise the black economy will grow and therefore the government will miss out on its taxes, that worries me, because they seem to take the view that taxes are sacred and anything that protects [tax revenue] is legitimate.”
Senator Leyonhjelm said while “most people accept paying tax as a civic duty”, there was a limit. “We are past that limit, so avoiding taxes is much more likely,” he said.
“Getting rid of $100 notes, putting restrictions on cash payments, these are all directed at increasing taxation ... [when taxes] already exceed what people regard as a reasonable taxation level.”
Where does Senator Leyonhjelm think his generous salary comes from? And what the heck is wrong with making it more difficult for people to illegally avoid paying taxes? I would have thought that collecting taxes from potential tax dodgers would benefit everyone, especially those who are already paying what they perceive to be too much tax.

(sorry for going off-topic, just providing an example of the sort of daily dog whistling that goes on in the Murdoch press.
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Last edited by 142857; 5th September 2017 at 08:32 PM.
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  #48  
Old 6th September 2017, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: Welfare Users?

Personally, if a business employs thousands of people and has payroll tax, company tax etc taken from it and its employees all have tax taken from them, I'd be quite OK if the owner pulls 10s of millions in personal income, tax free, as a thank you very much.
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  #49  
Old 6th September 2017, 10:04 AM
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MikeJay said View Post
Personally, if a business employs thousands of people and has payroll tax, company tax etc taken from it and its employees all have tax taken from them, I'd be quite OK if the owner pulls 10s of millions in personal income, tax free, as a thank you very much.
So the income tax of the employees justifies the non-income-tax of the employer?

Almost sounds like the divine right of kings.
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  #50  
Old 6th September 2017, 11:11 AM
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Default Re: Welfare Users?

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The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
So the income tax of the employees justifies the non-income-tax of the employer?

Almost sounds like the divine right of kings.
So you want to single out just the employees tax? thats not what I said. The benefit to the economy in terms of providing jobs, products and or services and the total of company tax revenue + employee tax revenue + GST on those goods and services justifies giving the owner an income tax break.
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