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Education How it is and how it should be. The current system and those attempting to subvert it.

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  #11  
Old 4th June 2017, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: Terminological Workaround

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The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
I disagree strongly with the OP's suggestion I've outlined in bold red.

This would have the effect of defining all other students as "other than intelligent". I have seen some students who faced considerable social and scholastic challenges, succeed and be happy and productive, despite additional barriers due to undeserved prejudice: the application these folk have shown is a working equivalent for the qualities the OP terms "intelligence", and may, in many cases, be of greater benefit to the individual and to the community as a whole.

Perhaps the curricula would be better divided by non-judgmental terms, such as colour.

If they wished, the academically selective division could be the Golden Stream: I'm not sure but I think Wilde said that.
Not sure what you're on here but I disagree with you anyway.
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  #12  
Old 4th June 2017, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Terminological Workaround

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Darwinsbulldog said View Post
General Achievement Test (GAT)?

I am not a professional educator, or rather I have taught at Uni, but have no formal teaching degree. So I am no expert.

That said, my impression is that it is good for an educator to have a good idea of an individual's strengths and weaknesses, so from that point of view, a GAT is a good idea. The more you know about a student, the more you can provide appropriate help. But for most other purposes, no. it may be good to know how many students are weak in X or strong in Y, so that authorities can target funding priorities. But if GATs are [mis]used as evidence of elitism in schools, then no. In my experience, funding is the main reason why schools produce successful students. That, and a sane teaching policy/doctrine. That said, there are a lot of holes, such as addressing special needs students. Mostly not a 'sexy" political issue, and mostly drowned out by how privileged religious schools are being "underfunded".

Gate-keeping? I don't believe in it. Especially at university level. Not a priori anyway. If someone has a genuine thirst for knowledge, let them in, and give them a go. Worry about funding later.

Murdoch uni was a great institution once. Let anyone in, give them Foundation Courses [bridging courses basically, to equip them with knowledge and skill to be successful in their quest for a degree], and only then, if they fail, consider letting them go. Now like elsewhere, it is about money and bums on seats rather than education.

This is what people don't get, or refuse to get because of ideological blindness. We shouldn't give a flying fuck about the education budgets ruining the economy, because society will benefit a hundredfold down the track. The trick is ensuring real education -a properly educated population will not only be a productive society, but a sane and humane one as well.

Conservatives look at long-haired rebel students, and sigh despair [forgetting that many of them were long-haired rebels in their own day]. So now students have to be "productive", academics "productive", etc, which is nothing about education, but all about giving students huge debts, giving academics unrealistic teaching loads, and demanding education should make a massive profit.

It is all fucked in the head. Greedy. Short-sighted, and mean. Privatisation gone mad, and universities are not even fully privatised yet. Mass production is great for producing toasters or widgets. It is totally inappropriate for education. Indeed, it is counter-productive. Societies thrive from contrary opinion, so long as it is based on informed thought and true critical thinking.

So what do we have instead? What is the reality? The reality is scum like Trump rising to the top. Because no one, no matter how desperate, if educated properly, would consider voting for such beasts, no matter what was promised.
I appreciate your hard work, dedication and intellectual perseverance in composing a long-winded text such as this but all I can say is that you've failed to be specific and to the point when talking in terms of GAT. That is, GAT is not General Achievement Test that I'm referring to - I'm only referring to Gifted and Talented. Now is that all clear?
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  #13  
Old 4th June 2017, 05:39 PM
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Not sure what you're on here but I disagree with you anyway.
Disagreeing without bothering to understand? Nah, forget it.
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Last edited by The Irreverent Mr Black; 4th June 2017 at 05:40 PM. Reason: not bothering
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  #14  
Old 4th June 2017, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Terminological Workaround

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Disagreeing without bothering to understand? Nah, forget it.
I've read your post thoroughly with unnecessarily in-depth critical intelligence (no exaggeration or self-infatuation whatsoever) yet I 'disagree' with something else.
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Old 4th June 2017, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Terminological Workaround

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Azurisan21 said View Post
Quote:
Darwinsbulldog said View Post
General Achievement Test (GAT)?

I am not a professional educator, or rather I have taught at Uni, but have no formal teaching degree. So I am no expert.

That said, my impression is that it is good for an educator to have a good idea of an individual's strengths and weaknesses, so from that point of view, a GAT is a good idea. The more you know about a student, the more you can provide appropriate help. But for most other purposes, no. it may be good to know how many students are weak in X or strong in Y, so that authorities can target funding priorities. But if GATs are [mis]used as evidence of elitism in schools, then no. In my experience, funding is the main reason why schools produce successful students. That, and a sane teaching policy/doctrine. That said, there are a lot of holes, such as addressing special needs students. Mostly not a 'sexy" political issue, and mostly drowned out by how privileged religious schools are being "underfunded".

Gate-keeping? I don't believe in it. Especially at university level. Not a priori anyway. If someone has a genuine thirst for knowledge, let them in, and give them a go. Worry about funding later.

Murdoch uni was a great institution once. Let anyone in, give them Foundation Courses [bridging courses basically, to equip them with knowledge and skill to be successful in their quest for a degree], and only then, if they fail, consider letting them go. Now like elsewhere, it is about money and bums on seats rather than education.

This is what people don't get, or refuse to get because of ideological blindness. We shouldn't give a flying fuck about the education budgets ruining the economy, because society will benefit a hundredfold down the track. The trick is ensuring real education -a properly educated population will not only be a productive society, but a sane and humane one as well.

Conservatives look at long-haired rebel students, and sigh despair [forgetting that many of them were long-haired rebels in their own day]. So now students have to be "productive", academics "productive", etc, which is nothing about education, but all about giving students huge debts, giving academics unrealistic teaching loads, and demanding education should make a massive profit.

It is all fucked in the head. Greedy. Short-sighted, and mean. Privatisation gone mad, and universities are not even fully privatised yet. Mass production is great for producing toasters or widgets. It is totally inappropriate for education. Indeed, it is counter-productive. Societies thrive from contrary opinion, so long as it is based on informed thought and true critical thinking.

So what do we have instead? What is the reality? The reality is scum like Trump rising to the top. Because no one, no matter how desperate, if educated properly, would consider voting for such beasts, no matter what was promised.
I appreciate your hard work, dedication and intellectual perseverance in composing a long-winded text such as this but all I can say is that you've failed to be specific and to the point when talking in terms of GAT. That is, GAT is not General Achievement Test that I'm referring to - I'm only referring to Gifted and Talented. Now is that all clear?


Az, GAT is short for General Achievement Test. Always has been. If you are going to be talking about education and use GAT, then people are going to think you mean that.
If you want it to be something different you need to say so at the start


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Old 4th June 2017, 05:43 PM
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Default Re: Terminological Workaround

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Az, GAT is short for General Achievement Test. Always has been. If you are going to be talking about education and use GAT, then people are going to think you mean that.
If you want it to be something different you need to say so at the start


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Yes, I know GAT also stands for General Achievement Test but as clearly indicated at the outset, I have referred to Gifted and Talented.
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Old 4th June 2017, 05:47 PM
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Default Re: Terminological Workaround

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Quote:
The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
Disagreeing without bothering to understand? Nah, forget it.
I've read your post thoroughly with unnecessarily in-depth critical intelligence (no exaggeration or self-infatuation whatsoever) yet I 'disagree' with something else.
Azu, you have an insistence on terms and words that mean one thing to you, yet something else to others.

Now you are disagreeing with something you choose to keep to yourself, yet it seems you expect me to continue the conversation.

I think it might be better if I didn't.
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Old 4th June 2017, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Terminological Workaround

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Azu, you have an insistence on terms and words that mean one thing to you, yet something else to others.

Now you are disagreeing with something you choose to keep to yourself, yet it seems you expect me to continue the conversation.

I think it might be better if I didn't.
You overlooked my emoticon. I was rolling eyes and being sarcastic.
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  #19  
Old 4th June 2017, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: Terminological Workaround

Nope. I'm done with it.

I learned so many practical things from a man who did no more than third grade school, and spelled "water" "warter".

Those skills I picked up have been of more use to me than any formal schooling I received.

But if you want to think you're smart, go ahead. See if you are up to a simple challenge like communicating clearly in text and being understood.

I do want to make it clear though. Eye-rolls or not, I am finished with this thread.
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  #20  
Old 4th June 2017, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: Terminological Workaround

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The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
Nope. I'm done with it.

I learned so many practical things from a man who did no more than third grade school, and spelled "water" "warter".

Those skills I picked up have been of more use to me than any formal schooling I received.

But if you want to think you're smart, go ahead. See if you are up to a simple challenge like communicating clearly in text and being understood.

I do want to make it clear though. Eye-rolls or not, I am finished with this thread.
^ This.

As far as the type of intelligence that means kids score well on school exams goes, for what it is worth, 'gifted' is a good description as they didn't do anything to earn it.

Most of the people who have shaped my life and have my admiration and respect are people that would not be able to complete the education I have completed. It means very little. Many of them are far more financially successful than I will ever be, and many of them have skills I will never be able to acquire. We all contribute in our own way and, as I have said before, I will take kind people over 'intelligent' people every day of the week.

You need to move past this fixation on intelligence and elitism.
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