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Education How it is and how it should be. The current system and those attempting to subvert it.

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  #11  
Old 12th June 2016, 01:22 PM
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Default Re: Call for Atheism in GAT & NSW Selective Schools

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What you want to see [...] is secularism.


Opposition to theist authority, rather than secularism, was pushed in Russia under the "communist" regime, with negligible apparent effect once that set of authoritarians were cleared away for the current individual and cronies. The idea is to separate church and state, not to put them to war; that would be fighting one's own society. Theism declines with education, even in America where atheism may be way behind that in Australia as we are behind other countries, yet atheism spreads.
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  #12  
Old 13th June 2016, 12:36 AM
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Default Re: Call for Atheism in GAT & NSW Selective Schools

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How do you make a paradigm of non-belief stronger?

I don't want kids taught atheism any more than I want them taught theism.

School is just not the place for this.

Essentially, the position which wants atheism taught in schools is exactly the same as that of theists wanting their beliefs taught in schools.

It's a big fat no from me.
I disagree. It could be part of a social sciences or philosophy course, adjusted for age. Atheism and agnosticism are valid positions and deserve more than being treated as synonyms of evil or immorality in communities that have been saturated with religious propaganda and disinformation about these positions.
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  #13  
Old 13th June 2016, 01:08 AM
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Default Re: Call for Atheism in GAT & NSW Selective Schools

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I disagree. It could be part of a social sciences or philosophy course, adjusted for age. Atheism and agnosticism are valid positions and deserve more than being treated as synonyms of evil or immorality in communities that have been saturated with religious propaganda and disinformation about these positions.

Teaching about =/= teaching.
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Old 13th June 2016, 03:07 PM
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Default Re: Call for Atheism in GAT & NSW Selective Schools

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Teaching about =/= teaching.
Well, when it comes down to it, religion is all about ignorance and disinformation.
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Old 13th June 2016, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: Call for Atheism in GAT & NSW Selective Schools

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Well, when it comes down to it, religion is all about ignorance and disinformation.

I'm not sure whether it's similar in Oz, but in the UK we have religious education/studies which is basically a comparative look at the history and beliefs of the world's major religions.

Teaching about religion is fine, as far as I am concerned. It's been a major factor of human culture and inter-group context. It's shaped the politics and behaviors of billions of people since nearly as far back as recorded history.

Not only that, but teaching about religion in this sense gives would-be-insular-fundies a window into the cherished beliefs of other people. Personally, I think it does more to dispel these illusions than any other class aside from Biology.

But teaching religion should be restricted to churches and extra-curricular activity: it has no place in a state school.
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Old 13th June 2016, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Call for Atheism in GAT & NSW Selective Schools

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I'm not sure whether it's similar in Oz, but in the UK we have religious education/studies which is basically a comparative look at the history and beliefs of the world's major religions.

Teaching about religion is fine, as far as I am concerned. It's been a major factor of human culture and inter-group context. It's shaped the politics and behaviors of billions of people since nearly as far back as recorded history.

Not only that, but teaching about religion in this sense gives would-be-insular-fundies a window into the cherished beliefs of other people. Personally, I think it does more to dispel these illusions than any other class aside from Biology.

But teaching religion should be restricted to churches and extra-curricular activity: it has no place in a state school.
I totally agree ST. I support R.E. so long as it is really RE, and not just a fucking prayer session. Everyone should be well informed about all religions, and their alternatives like the positions of atheism and agnosticism.

I disagree that religion should not be taught in State schools. But it must be comparative religion and include other ways of thinking like atheism/agnosticism. As you have already said, religions are part of human history and cultures, so it is absurd to exclude them from any school curriculum.

The wheels come off when only one religion is taught, and taught with bias, and just becomes apologetics and propaganda, for that religion. The requirement of comparative religion as a subject should be universal in ALL schools, as I have outlined it.
Then children [who will later become voters] can make informed choices about what to believe or not believe about the various religions and atheism.
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  #17  
Old 13th June 2016, 05:41 PM
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Default Re: Call for Atheism in GAT & NSW Selective Schools

I thought I already made the distinction clear.

Teaching about religion is fine.

Teaching religion, as in proselytizing, theological brainwashing, preaching, is not ok in state schools.
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  #18  
Old 15th June 2016, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: Call for Atheism in GAT & NSW Selective Schools

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Fookin ell no!

Evangelizing atheists? That'd be absurd!

Hello sir, could I interest you in hearing about nothing?

There's absolutely no rational point in pushing atheism.

What you want to see in schools is secularism.
I'm up for atheism being more proactive.
Evangelizing atheists is not so absurd if you want victims of religion to think.
The idea that atheism is about nothing is the bit that is a little absurd.

The rational point of pushing atheism is to evolve fellow humans into living a good life, in reality.

I agree that secularism is the goal but atheism has to level the playing field.
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Old 15th June 2016, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: Call for Atheism in GAT & NSW Selective Schools

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auskiwi said View Post
I'm up for atheism being more proactive.
Evangelizing atheists is not so absurd if you want victims of religion to think.
The idea that atheism is about nothing is the bit that is a little absurd.

The rational point of pushing atheism is to evolve fellow humans into living a good life, in reality.

I agree that secularism is the goal but atheism has to level the playing field.

Atheism isn't about what you believe in, it's what you don't believe in. If under your banner of atheism you have anything other than a disbelief in god, then you can get your grubby mitts of my kids, thanks all the same! I don't want you having some special access to indoctrinate them any more than I want a theist doing it for theism.

And if all you have under the banner of atheism is 'not theism' - then I fail to see what you have to offer educationally.
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  #20  
Old 16th June 2016, 03:55 PM
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Default Re: Call for Atheism in GAT & NSW Selective Schools

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Spearthrower said View Post
Atheism isn't about what you believe in, it's what you don't believe in. If under your banner of atheism you have anything other than a disbelief in god, then you can get your grubby mitts of my kids, thanks all the same! I don't want you having some special access to indoctrinate them any more than I want a theist doing it for theism.

And if all you have under the banner of atheism is 'not theism' - then I fail to see what you have to offer educationally.
I disagree and To me you seem to be riding on baseless assertions of atheism.

Atheism, in not believing, gives plenty of positive benefits.
I think you don't understand what being atheist gives, especially in comparison to believers. Even if atheism just promoted a skeptical view on baseless claims, surely that would be of benefit.

If you want a more in depth understanding, just PM me.
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