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Education How it is and how it should be. The current system and those attempting to subvert it.

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  #11  
Old 19th March 2013, 01:52 AM
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DanDare DanDare is offline
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Default Re: Appeal denied on religious classes

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sgryphon said View Post
Note: When I raised this issue the principal offered to remove my child (only), and not the other child in the class, so unless parents happen to find out or question they are happy to let it continue.
The principle, knowingly breaking the rule for the other child, should be a sackable offense. I would suggest getting the name of the regional director and escalating the issue with them, CC to the Australian Secular Party.
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  #12  
Old 18th April 2013, 11:32 PM
jlo jlo is offline
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Default Re: Appeal denied on religious classes

To quote DanDare

"Parents are told they must opt out. If they opt out kids are kept in the classroom. If the parents complain they are told the school cannot find extra staff to look after the kids in a different location.

At this point several different things happen, the most common is the school gives in and the kids go to the library and are supervised. The next most common is the kids go to the principles office and wait there.

I know that there are quite a few AFA members who have had similar experiences, although only a few in Queensland. Anyone else want to come forward with tales?"

Personally, I know quite a few people who have to opt OUT in 2013..
Can't believe what happened to your school, it's disgusting. But it's happening in a few other schools, read: electorates aswell!

"Full fundamentalist conquest of a state school."

Know of atleast 2 state schools where this is about to happen, despite the assertions that it's not. PR campaigns give thanks to the local Happy-Clappies for helping out in the State School - "Our kids are in safe hands thanks to the Chaplaincy Program & XYZ Local Church!" & P'nC is run by a few mental, sorry, FUNDAmentalIST people.

Two different State Schools, same church.. Should look into a few others in the area for kicks. Probably won't like what I find..
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  #13  
Old 19th April 2013, 09:25 AM
sgryphon sgryphon is offline
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Default Re: Appeal denied on religious classes

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DanDare said View Post
The principle, knowingly breaking the rule for the other child, should be a sackable offense. would sug Igest getting the name of the regional director and escalating the issue with them, CC to the Australian Secular Party.
There are two problems with that.

* The Education (General Provisions) Regulation 2006 state "in a separate location", without defining "location" and I am trying to confirm in writing with the department whether the "back of the room" is considered a separate location from the "front of the room" (which I have been told on the phone).

* The regulations do not specify any penalty of offence, so not following them has no effect. There is no such thing as general "breaking the law" penalty; there needs to be either a specific offence (which then has a penalty attached) or penalty directly attached for there to be a consequence for not following it.

I suppose the next stop is either higher up the education department chain, or go to the Minister. I mean, why have the regulation if it effectively means nothing (standing next to you is still a "separate location") and has no consequence?
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  #14  
Old 20th April 2013, 11:08 AM
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Default Re: Appeal denied on religious classes

The regulation seems to be written to allow for it to be interpreted two ways. One is acceptable to those who vote for it and the other is what the zealots want to be able to do, which would not have been acceptable to the voters.

This seems pretty common practice amongst the theocrats. Get people to beleive that schools are providing something they are ok with, like general religious education, and ensure the rules actually allow for direct evangelism of religious doctrine.
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"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
-Thomas Jefferson

Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.
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  #15  
Old 1st May 2013, 08:52 PM
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Freethinkeroz Freethinkeroz is offline
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Default Re: Appeal denied on religious classes

Fuck this stuff makes me angry. Haven't had to deal with it personally yet as my boy's too young, but I really want to see these proselytisers out of schools before then. It is so appalling that children have their time wasted in boredom because they are fortunate enough to be spared indoctrination, it is so dodgy that children are sometimes simply put at the back of the room and so underhanded that schools have often made it only too easy for kids to end up in RI. Confession: I used to teach Scripture in schools back in my uni days, I know what goes on. Seriously, what the fuck are these people doing in our public schools? Parents can send them to Sunday school if that's what they want. I'll bet you there'll be nothing like 95% of them getting indoctrinated that way. I do tend to agree with things I've heard others say though that without reinforcement from home, it's not likely to stick, but while that is probably the case for most kids, it doesn't make the situation any less wrong.
FTO
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  #16  
Old 23rd July 2016, 09:52 AM
Mattaro Mattaro is offline
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Default Re: Appeal denied on religious classes

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DanDare said View Post

In many schools the parents are unaware their children are attending religious instruction until some incident occurs, like mine with the "DNA wasn't invented then" episode.
[edit]Oh, and the dual role assembly and public facility hall was booked out in perpetuity every Sunday to an evangelical church group that could have met at the Champion Center but wanted to colonise the school instead.[/edit]

At around 10 of the schools parents who opt their kids out find they have been returned to RI the following year. In my case when I confronted the admin staff I was told that it is policy that you must renew your opt out every year.

I know that there are quite a few AFA members who have had similar experiences, although only a few in Queensland. Anyone else want to come forward with tales?

In my case it was Chancellor State College on the Sunshine Coast, 2008. I was networked at that time with parents from four other state schools on the coast and we escalated complaints to principles and regional head to no avail.

At Chancellor State the principle was on side until the chaplain intrusion. The priniple helped to try and fight the inclusion of a chaplain, was shifted to another school in 2010(?). The new principle, at our first meeting, declared himself to beleive in Jesus as his personal saviour. The top staff were all members of the prayer group. The new principle was actively engaged in the Champion Center down the road and all major school functions were moved to that venue, balls, graduation ceremonies and so on. We ended up with the Gideons coming in every year, unnanounced handing out bibles. The chaplain brought in "mentors" for one on one with troubled kids and took over first contact with kids that should have been seeing the full time school councilor. Full fundamentalist conquest of a state school. When we left they had not started assembly prayers but the principle always began speeches with the request that the students "give thanks for their good fortune".
Sorry to bump old thread but I have just joined the forum as I am looking for a state school here on the Sunshine Coast, the reason for a state school is I want my son to have as much of a secular education as possible, unfortunately with the inclusion of chaplains and the evangelical agenda into public schools it is not an easy task. I am in the Chancellor Park school area and was going to enrol my son there and have across this thread. I think a new principal started in 2014 so I am wondering if things have changed for the better? Other nearby schools such as Mountain Creek also seem to have significant religious influence. Would have sent pm but don't think I can yet. Thanks.
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  #17  
Old 23rd July 2016, 12:28 PM
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DanDare DanDare is offline
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Default Re: Appeal denied on religious classes

Hi Mattaro. The school itself is a fairly excellent state school, going from pre-school through to high school and being wrapped around the university.

These problems are not ones that should put you off the school but you will have to be quite clear that you do not want your child attending RI, or being punished in some way when not attending. And you have to put it on record that you do not want your child to have contact with the chaplain and require that any problems your child has go directly to school councillor and not the chaplain.

Make it public and vocal in P&C meetings etc so other parents will know they are not alone. I ended up with a strong parent network before we left to move to Brisbane and you will find there are many parents who are aghast at the religious intrusion.

It is difficult to avoid having your child singled out, one of the things that makes chaplains and RI so bad, but when enough parents have networked the kids, with a little nudging, network too.

[edit] Also get in contact with this group for support: https://www.facebook.com/QldParentsSecularStateSchools/ [/edit]
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"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
-Thomas Jefferson

Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.

Last edited by DanDare; 23rd July 2016 at 12:29 PM.
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  #18  
Old 23rd July 2016, 12:34 PM
Mattaro Mattaro is offline
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Default Re: Appeal denied on religious classes

Thanks for the reply and I have joined qld parents for secular schools
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