Refuting god as the source of morality.

[riddlemethis]

Originally Posted by Neil Richardson

My grand-daughter, who's been raised without the benefit of religious guidance, unwittingly demonstrated to me that supernatural belief and morality are totally unrelated.

I suggested to her, by way of a practical joke, that after sitting on Santa's lap that she jump down and back away pointing at him, looking shocked and repeating, "he's got an erection, he's got an erection". Fairyfloss was utterly appalled at the idea, fully understanding the consequences for the poor man. I reckon that her moral compass is pointing in the right direction.

A 'practical' joke you say? Yes that suggestion is practically something but it's nowhere near a fucking joke. You need to take a loooong look at yourself.

[JHA]

I find that when a theist is asked, "so if God made it ok to do horrible things, would that make them moral by your standards", the theist will usually dodge the question. This Muslim was probably just being honest and saying what most theists believe (but don't have the guts to admit).

[Neil Richardson]

Originally Posted by Worldslaziestbusker

What part of that duty were you fulfilling by goading a child to commit slander against a man who did you no wrong with a potentially ruinous, spurious accusation of paedophilic tendencies?

For those who were unaware, this is what's known as a loaded question and is invalid under the rules of logic.
It is a device most often used by the politico-religious and attempts to disparage or embarrass rather than to
elicit an answer as they reckon they know all the answers without needing to ask. The implication of ethical
superiority and ad hominem seem to have crept into the thread in subsequent posts.

I don't subscribe to the notion that any philosophy is sacred and beyond criticism or piss-taking, so I find it
difficult to understand why some atheists feel the need to protect a particular part of Christian superstition
like Santa Klaus. Perhaps some vestigal, sub-conscious beliefs remain.

While we were away I told the blokes about the reaction by some here to our as yet unrealized Santa-stiffy joke.
One cynic opined that it sounded like infiltration by Presbyterian trolls, but others were quite taken by the
rather quaint concept of atheistic prudery. Anyhow, we observed a minute's silence in memory of Norman Lindsay
and Frank Hardy before partaking of cigars and a few gargles.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________
"If God had meant for us to be naked, we'd have been born that way." Mark Twain.

[wearestardust]

Originally Posted by Neil Richardson

I don't subscribe to the notion that any philosophy is sacred and beyond criticism or piss-taking, so I find it
difficult to understand why some atheists feel the need to protect a particular part of Christian superstition
like Santa Klaus. Perhaps some vestigal, sub-conscious beliefs remain.

Just so I am clear: attacking some bloke with a part-time job as Santa is a an act of resistance to religion in society?

I don't think anyone's been talking about preserving Christianity. I think the issue is more your determination to justify your acting like an arsehole.

I am also perplexed about how the proposition "don't be an arsehole to someone who is just doing their job" translates to "prudery".

[Worldslaziestbusker]

Originally Posted by Neil Richardson

For those who were unaware, this is what's known as a loaded question and is invalid under the rules of logic.
It is a device most often used by the politico-religious and attempts to disparage or embarrass rather than to
elicit an answer as they reckon they know all the answers without needing to ask. The implication of ethical
superiority and ad hominem seem to have crept into the thread in subsequent posts.

I don't subscribe to the notion that any philosophy is sacred and beyond criticism or piss-taking, so I find it
difficult to understand why some atheists feel the need to protect a particular part of Christian superstition
like Santa Klaus. Perhaps some vestigal, sub-conscious beliefs remain.

While we were away I told the blokes about the reaction by some here to our as yet unrealized Santa-stiffy joke.
One cynic opined that it sounded like infiltration by Presbyterian trolls, but others were quite taken by the
rather quaint concept of atheistic prudery. Anyhow, we observed a minute's silence in memory of Norman Lindsay
and Frank Hardy before partaking of cigars and a few gargles.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________
"If God had meant for us to be naked, we'd have been born that way." Mark Twain.

If you feel painted into a corner, look to your hand for the brush. You made the logical fallacy. All I did was point it out to you.
I don't care about Santa, but I do care about people. That wasn't actually Santa, it was a guy in a suit.
You loaded the question by acting unethically and then trying to pass the douchery as an ethical duty. Fuck your noise a month and a half ago and again tonight.

Get your friends to turn up and dispute the point if you need the backup to feel good about your behaviour. Presbyterian troll my arse.

[DanDare]

Neil,

making a false accusation against someone about paedophilia is both perverse and criminal.

Getting a child to do it is child abuse.

It has nothing to do with Santa or christianity or fighting religious dogma.

Your actions, if you are telling the truth about the situation, are reprehensible.

[Morbane]

I thought this thread might be a discussion of the evolution of morality. There's some great research on the evolution of co-operation and altruism and even fear / suspicious of "the other".

I've been confronted with the argument from creationists that without God there can be no conscience and thus no morality, another version of the argument being the parables of religion are necessary to teach morality and finally the third version of the argument is the role of sin and punishment in enforcing morality (ie. threat of damnation). - basically god as some kind of ultimate security camera.

Theres a very good case for the evolution of morality as being hard wired as well as cultural. None-the-less the no god no morality arguments really get my goat.

But after reading the posts, I must admit I'm disappointed. *Yawn*

[Worldslaziestbusker]

Originally Posted by Morbane

Theres a very good case for the evolution of morality as being hard wired as well as cultural. None-the-less the no god no morality arguments really get my goat.

But after reading the posts, I must admit I'm disappointed. *Yawn*

Feel free to take the topic there yourself. Less yawn. More making the forum what you want it to be.

You could also search the forum for the words altruism, evolution and vampire bats, or combinations thereof to see what people have written on the matter in fossils from the pre-morban strata.

[Morbane]

Didn't know you could do a word search, good idea. Thanks.

And yes, I admit I made that comment based on the last few pages.