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  #41  
Old 3rd September 2017, 12:22 PM
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Default Re: Christianity is dying.

FWIW

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It may be true? How patronising can you get? IT IS FUCKING TRUE.
My intent was not be patronising, my intent was not to make definite claims I could not necessarily back-up. I pointed out how late Yasna was written down as it makes it really hard to assert 100% of the textual influence went in one direction, there was clearly a dialogue between the faiths, but that is as far as I will go.

Now my big problem with your earlier assertions (that YHWH is MAZDA) is that even if we say the influence shown in those verses was 100% in ONE direction, all 2nd Issiah does is affirm there is only one god instead of one god above all the others. Becoming monotheistic was certainly a progression in judiasm as they had already dropped many of the cannanite gods, and amalgamated others (El and YHWH for example) this however does not mean "YHWH is MAZDA". All it may mean, and I think likely it does, is that Zoroastrian (monotheistic) influence encouraged them to finally drop the vestiges of polytheism.
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  #42  
Old 3rd September 2017, 03:56 PM
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Now my big problem with your earlier assertions (that YHWH is MAZDA)
does this mean YHWH is Japanese? maybe this explains why he lasted so long. Japanese engineering is really good.
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Old 4th September 2017, 09:01 PM
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  #43  
Old 4th September 2017, 10:03 PM
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With 2.2 billion followers on Earth at the moment it is not an endangered "species" yet; shame about that! Maybe it is evolving as its followers are not been intimidated as in Medieval times by threats of been burned at the stake or stretched on a rack for instance for heresy, they are at liberty to think more freely these days thankfully. So Christianity as of this day would be unrecognisable to those practitioners of the much more strict faith in the Middle Ages. Hopefully mainstream Christianity will evolve that little bit more and reject that giant spaghetti sky monster.
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Old 4th September 2017, 10:16 PM
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With 2.2 billion followers on Earth at the moment it is not an endangered "species" yet; shame about that! Maybe it is evolving as its followers are not been intimidated as in Medieval times by threats of been burned at the stake or stretched on a rack for instance for heresy, they are at liberty to think more freely these days thankfully. So Christianity as of this day would be unrecognisable to those practitioners of the much more strict faith in the Middle Ages. Hopefully mainstream Christianity will evolve that little bit more and reject that giant spaghetti sky monster.
My bold.

I suspect that you're right. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say that many current flavours of the faith would be unrecognisable even to that of a century ago. I've friends and family for example who still avow their Christianity, but who are vocal supporters of marriage equality. A position many other relatives even of my generation vocally oppose. I can only imagine what Oma and Opa might have had to say on the issue.

The thing that bothers me is that for all that secularism has largely seemed to have pulled the teeth of aggressive Christianity as a political force, there seems now to be a distinct resurgence. The dominionists have been angling for it for decades, and it seems to be working. For all that they are fewer and fewer as a percentage of the population, they're awfully fucking overpowered politically, and they have an ally in the White House. I mean, he doesn't really give a fuck about them, but they're his allys nonetheless. And they've got a ridiculously large amount of clout in Australian politics too.
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  #45  
Old 5th September 2017, 10:24 AM
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The thing that bothers me is that for all that secularism has largely seemed to have pulled the teeth of aggressive Christianity as a political force, there seems now to be a distinct resurgence.
I have been wondering the same thing. I remember seeing a lecture by Dan Dennett where he posited that these are the death throes of religion. it is a wounded animal lashing in blind rage. This is clearly much more acute in the US but we see it here too to some degree.

I am not sure where I stand on this. most days I do think Dennett is right, at least where the 'western world' is concerned. but I also think it is dangerous to be complacent and think the battle is over.
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Old 5th September 2017, 10:35 AM
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The thing that bothers me is that for all that secularism has largely seemed to have pulled the teeth of aggressive Christianity as a political force, there seems now to be a distinct resurgence.
I have been wondering the same thing. I remember seeing a lecture by Dan Dennett where he posited that these are the death throes of religion. it is a wounded animal lashing in blind rage. This is clearly much more acute in the US but we see it here too to some degree.

I am not sure where I stand on this. most days I do think Dennett is right, at least where the 'western world' is concerned. but I also think it is dangerous to be complacent and think the battle is over.
Consider the turns, twists, reversals and new features the movement's taken since the early days.

Whether it's adopting a cult into the fold (say hi to Mary the Virgin Mother Goddess), or the marketing-driven pep-rallies of Hillsongery, the managers of the various tribes under the loose banner of xtianity have always been making changes, to get people in.

Sometimes the changes don't work: the last Shaker community is almost gone now.

But you can bet there will be something called Christianity around to see in 2300 CE (provided the planet doesn't get Trumped by then).
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  #47  
Old 5th September 2017, 11:03 AM
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But you can bet there will be something called Christianity around to see in 2300 CE (provided the planet doesn't get Trumped by then).
oh, I am sure of that. the question is what influence it will have.
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Old 5th September 2017, 11:12 AM
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But you can bet there will be something called Christianity around to see in 2300 CE (provided the planet doesn't get Trumped by then).
oh, I am sure of that. the question is what influence it will have.
Current Dominionist types are programmed for influence first: all else is negotiable.
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  #49  
Old 5th September 2017, 06:23 PM
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Current Dominionist types are programmed for influence first: all else is negotiable.
granted, but it's not a matter of how much they want but how much they will actually have.
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Old 5th September 2017, 08:23 PM
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The thing that bothers me is that for all that secularism has largely seemed to have pulled the teeth of aggressive Christianity as a political force, there seems now to be a distinct resurgence.
I have been wondering the same thing. I remember seeing a lecture by Dan Dennett where he posited that these are the death throes of religion. it is a wounded animal lashing in blind rage. This is clearly much more acute in the US but we see it here too to some degree.

I am not sure where I stand on this. most days I do think Dennett is right, at least where the 'western world' is concerned. but I also think it is dangerous to be complacent and think the battle is over.
It's not just the thrashing, spasming beast of Christianity, but of authoritarianism in general. The rise of the new fascism goes fist-in-glove with absurdities such as Brexit. The New Nazis in the US are very often avowedly non-theistic, but Trump's their poster boy as much as he is the Evangelicals'.

My own feeling, from the abysmally little I know of anything, is that there is always this cross-section of fucking frothing shitbergs floating along in society, and they surge and ebb with the tides of history, to mangle a metaphor.

Most people don't have the energy to sustain the single-minded pursuit of abject fucknuttery required to form a political movement of any kind, let alone one dedicated to the destruction and subjugation of vast swathes of society. In every political movement, there are those driving the clown-car. Those single-minded and dedicated enough to power collective shifts. That takes some serious fucking fortitude and weirdness. Fuck, look at us. Every goddamn one of us who has been doing this shit for any length of time is to one degree or another exceptional, and many of us are plumb mad. There's a reason a colloquial definition of madness is 'doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result'.

And that's in pursuit of entirely fucking reasonable and coherent goals like reducing the ravening maelstrom of unreason that has repeatedly brought our species to the brink of fucking destruction. And I've lost count of the number of would-be allies who are frankly obsessively unreasonable, and whom I personally cannot work with because they're magical atheists.

Just think on that for a moment, and ponder this: how fucking unhinged do you have to be to spend decades successfully building the political strength of the Dominionist movement?

And these shifts are, I'm pretty sure, driven by powerful minorities. I'd bet you pennies to dildoes that any fascist-type power-grab that has ever succeeded wasn't actually done with the full knowledge and consent of the majority of the populace.

We see it with Trump. He lost the popular vote, but won based on the system which had been gerrymandered and gamed for fucking decades and because a bunch of people who should have voted couldn't be arsed. And almost everyone outright responded to it by saying something along the lines of "we've got all these checks and balances that will stop him doing anything too bad." Nope.

Cos he doesn't give a fuck. And they have no fucking recourse, except if the Republicans actually pull their cocks out of their mouths long enough to work together and impeach him, but they can't do that because they don't know how. They don't know how to work together to acheive positive goals, only how to stop the Democrats from managing anything. That's what they're built on. They're no good at making legislation because they aren't a unified party for anything.

Anyway. Rant over, for now.
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