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Old 30th January 2016, 09:58 AM
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Default The US Election, 2016 Edition.

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Not for the first time it occurs to me that Abbott might be the ideal Presidential candidate - given the popularity of Trump. They can keep him - if they send us Obama.


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Can we have Sanders and Warren as well?
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Old 30th January 2016, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: Tony Abbott leadership challenge

I would far prefer Sanders over Obama TBH...

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Old 2nd February 2016, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

So after the first primary we have Cruz and a tie between Sanders and Clinton.
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Old 2nd February 2016, 11:51 PM
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

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So after the first primary we have Cruz and a tie between Sanders and Clinton.
But from what abc RN were saying trump isn't out he is still in with a chance.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 07:55 AM
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Default Re: Tony Abbott leadership challenge

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I would far prefer Sanders over Obama TBH...

I love both of them - unfortunately the realities of the job mean that even if Sanders got it he would probably be a disappointment.


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Old 3rd February 2016, 10:53 AM
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Default Re: Tony Abbott leadership challenge

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I love both of them - unfortunately the realities of the job mean that even if Sanders got it he would probably be a disappointment.


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it depends. if Hillary is elected, the first 2 years, until the next mid term elections, will be a nightmare. The Republicans will be even more angry, frustrated and fragmented and will stonewall everything. if the US public realizes that the Republican party is essentially dead, replaced by warring factions, they may give the Dems some majority in the mid term. But Hillary is not campaigning on a platform of change, so that is her Achilles heel. I doubt she can galvanize enough voters to make a real difference in the house. Most of the "radical" ideas she has, have been borrowed from Bernie, once she saw how popular they were. But I have no doubt in my mind that she is basically a status-quo candidate. She will fold on any major fight and her term will be much like Obama's second.
Bernie on the other hand is representing a popular uprising of sorts. his first 2 years won't be any easier, but if he can sustain the movement into the mid terms, things can improve after that. He has repeatedly said that and is not pretending he can do it alone. He won't succeed unless there is a popular movement that shakes things up. the ensuing acrimony - if he is elected - can be used to fuel the movement, but can also backfire. depending on how he can message it
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Old 3rd February 2016, 11:00 AM
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Default Re: Tony Abbott leadership challenge

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Stub King said View Post
Quote:
odd said View Post
I love both of them - unfortunately the realities of the job mean that even if Sanders got it he would probably be a disappointment.


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it depends. if Hillary is elected, the first 2 years, until the next mid term elections, will be a nightmare. The Republicans will be even more angry, frustrated and fragmented and will stonewall everything. if the US public realizes that the Republican party is essentially dead, replaced by warring factions, they may give the Dems some majority in the mid term. But Hillary is not campaigning on a platform of change, so that is her Achilles heel. I doubt she can galvanize enough voters to make a real difference in the house. Most of the "radical" ideas she has, have been borrowed from Bernie, once she saw how popular they were. But I have no doubt in my mind that she is basically a status-quo candidate. She will fold on any major fight and her term will be much like Obama's second.
Bernie on the other hand is representing a popular uprising of sorts. his first 2 years won't be any easier, but if he can sustain the movement into the mid terms, things can improve after that. He has repeatedly said that and is not pretending he can do it alone. He won't succeed unless there is a popular movement that shakes things up. the ensuing acrimony - if he is elected - can be used to fuel the movement, but can also backfire. depending on how he can message it
Interesting.

After writing my post, and before reading yours, I stumbled on this video - in which Cenk Uygur analyses an editorial by senior democrat, Senator Elizabeth Warren. It also makes some interesting points:



I think I will move these posts to a different thread.
[ETA - Done - these posts were moved from The Malcolm Turnbull Thread]
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Last edited by odd; 3rd February 2016 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 12:43 PM
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Default Re: Tony Abbott leadership challenge

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odd said View Post
Interesting.

After writing my post, and before reading yours, I stumbled on this video - in which Cenk Uygur analyses an editorial by senior democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren. It also makes some interesting points

I don't know what to make of Cenk Uygur. I have seen him be progressive and reasonable and also defensive and illogical. I am leaning more towards him being a muslim apologist, a-la Reza Eslan. intelligent, articulate, sometimes with a good point but usually obfuscating.

I have no idea what he is trying to do here. It is not a secret that Warren likes and supports Sanders, nor is it a secret that one of the main criticism Hillary directs at him is "he is too radical. he will never get these things through. vote for me, I am a pragmatist, not an idealist and I will get it done".

if you assume the system cannot or will not change, Hillary is a better candidate. She will fail less, though I am not sure how much she will succeed. if, however, you assume that the system can be changed (which has happened in US history), then Hillary will not be the one to drive this change. as Warren aptly pointed, it will only happen if the people demand it.

I hope Bernie wins, and I hope the American people will rise to the challenge. though, I would not bet on it
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Old 3rd February 2016, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: The US Election, 2016 Edition.

Bernie Sanders has massive support among young voters. That gives me some hope for the future.

People don't realize yet how far to the right politics has moved. People of my generation think that by voting for the Libs in 2016 they will be supporting the same party that their parents voted for in 1975. Similar in the US I imagine. Younger voters might have a fresher perspective.

Last edited by 142857; 3rd February 2016 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2016, 04:01 PM
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Default Re: The US Election, 2016 Edition.

I was very surprised Sanders did so well in Iowa. I thought he would do well on the East Coast, particularly in New England, but struggle in the west and the mid states.

To me Clinton is a steady set of hands, but she will not doing anything radical and is to beholden to interests that have accumulated around in her time in the Obama administration. I also have a distaste for political dynasties, even if they are semi-democratic.

Politics in the US, and the world for that matter, need a shake up and I much prefer Sanders to do the shaking than Trump.
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