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  #251  
Old 21st April 2017, 03:45 PM
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

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wadaye said View Post
I didn't want to drag this out but the issue reminds me of the obnoxious tshirts which were derigour in the western suburbs of sydney in the eighties, "Speak English or Die"
Not emotional or passionate?
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  #252  
Old 21st April 2017, 03:46 PM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

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pipbarber said View Post
Quote:
wadaye said View Post
I didn't want to drag this out but the issue reminds me of the obnoxious tshirts which were derigour in the western suburbs of sydney in the eighties, "Speak English or Die"
Not emotional or passionate?
Just facts
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Last edited by wadaye; 21st April 2017 at 04:09 PM.
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  #253  
Old 21st April 2017, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

Yeah...i understand the intuitive flinch from testing English for citizenship, it seems a little on the fascist spectrum perhaps?

Nevertheless, i'm kind of ok with it as a way promoting the Lingua Franca of a, generally, successful multicultural society. Though, as i said, it depends where the bar is set.

I don't know really, i find this a difficult issue.
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  #254  
Old 21st April 2017, 04:13 PM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

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pipbarber said View Post
Yeah...i understand the intuitive flinch from testing English for citizenship, it seems a little on the fascist spectrum perhaps?

Nevertheless, i'm kind of ok with it as a way promoting the Lingua Franca of a, generally, successful multicultural society. Though, as i said, it depends where the bar is set.

I don't know really, i find this a difficult issue.
It will really affect those denied education the most. Certain refugees will be very vulnerable to this denial of rights. The government will feel secure because the refugees convention as presently applied would not be violated by denying citizenship to refugees effectively on the basis of their race.

Nonetheless it is clearly a breach of Australia's obligations under the racial discrimination convention (CERD)
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Last edited by wadaye; 21st April 2017 at 04:23 PM. Reason: Too emotive and passionate
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  #255  
Old 21st April 2017, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

No, hang on. If you have been granted refugee status, you receive a permanent residency visa, right? There's no language test involved unless the holder wants to become a citizen.
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  #256  
Old 21st April 2017, 04:56 PM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

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No, hang on. If you have been granted refugee status, you receive a permanent residency visa, right? There's no language test involved unless the holder wants to become a citizen.
Yes but if you are not a citizen and came by boat your spouse visa application to bring your wife and children will be accorded lowest processing priority which means always standing last in the queue. That is a bottomless bucket out of which one can't climb in that situation. Similarly citizenship applications aee bibg delayed inordinately for this same class of people. Now the new test seems inevitably to exclude this class of people from bringing their families. Further if they make a mistake such as DUI they will be punished according to law and may have their visa cancelled.

The general public is largely ignorant of the processes but broadly supportive of speak english or face the consequences.
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Last edited by wadaye; 21st April 2017 at 04:59 PM.
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  #257  
Old 21st April 2017, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

Ok, so the family reunion issue is complicated by non-citizenship. But that's always been the case, hasn't it?

Quote:
The general public is largely ignorant of the processes but broadly supportive of speak english or face the consequences.
Putting aside the emotional and political element here, one of the most significant consequences of not speaking English in Australia (that is beginner level English) is marginalisation, restricted employment and educational opportunities and problems with general day to day living.

Now, if the government were to fund English classes for PR visa holders seeking citizenship, that surely would be a good thing? Maybe even the 'general public' would approve of that.
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  #258  
Old 21st April 2017, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

If you want these posts popped out, let me know.


It's not just refugees that this will affect.

'It's like The Castle': Swedish-Aussie couple caught in citizenship crackdown

Quote:
She's 20 weeks' pregnant and her father is 15,000km away, battling cancer.

And now the future of a young couple is in limbo because of Malcolm Turnbull and Peter Dutton's citizenship changes.

Nina and Perrin Wilkins, a Swede and an Aussie who married in Australia in 2013, say they've been carefully planning their lives together for seven years.

The university-educated professionals have long dreamed of Nina gaining her Australian citizenship.

She has spent more than three years on temporary and permanent partner visas. Australian citizenship beckoned in just 12 more months.

But now they are looking at a four-year wait, while Nina completes her permanent residence requirements under the new citizenship rules unveiled by Mr Turnbull and Mr Dutton on Thursday.

Nina and Perrin say the Turnbull government's announcement has up-ended their plan to move to Sweden in a few years time - after Nina gained her Australian citizenship - so their unborn child could grow up in both countries, and learn both languages from a young age.

The couple also recently learned that Nina's father's throat cancer has returned and he is facing a 20-week course of chemotherapy; adding urgency to their plans to temporarily move to Sweden.

"Now that my father has been diagnosed with cancer, it's more important than ever for us to have the opportunity to return Sweden for a period of time," Nina says.

"This is emotionally distressing for us, especially as we look forward to the birth of our child. With my father's ill health, it's not possible for us to stay in Australia for another three years. We don't know how much longer he's got and I want to be with my family throughout this time."

If they move to Sweden within the next four years, thousands of dollars in visa applications and hundreds of hours of paperwork will have been mostly wasted.

Fairfax Media has confirmed that couples on permanent partner (801) visas will now have to be permanent residents for four years, up from one, as will people on other types of visas, such as the new medium-term temporary work visa, under tough new citizenship rules unveiled this week.

"I want my father to get to know his grandchild, without compromising my ability to return to Australia," she says.

Perrin says the couple's plans were made with the current visa arrangements in mind. "The retrospective impact has shattered the foundation of the life we were building together. They have left us in a state of limbo.

"These changes aren't just about us. They affect thousands of Australians, their spouses, their families, and their futures. By applying these changes to current permanent residents, these reforms are manifestly unfair."

And their message to the government?

"It's like The Castle, the government can't just buy a person's house, they have to do it on just terms.

"Where are our just terms?"
This government fucking sucks.
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  #259  
Old 21st April 2017, 06:15 PM
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

Yeah Wolty, we've strayed from Malcolm here. Last page or two might be better in an immigration thread? Or citizenship? Not sure what you'd call it...'general unease?'
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  #260  
Old 21st April 2017, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

Just as an aside.

Woman That Honestly Thinks ‘Youse’ Is A Plural Says Migrants Need Proper English Skills


Quote:
Local Beautician, Kelsey Shayler (46) says Prime Minister Turnbull’s reactionary decision to launch a major shake up of Australian’s citizenship laws is fucking spot on.

The changes mean would-be citizens would have to be permanent residents for four years rather than one; a new English language test will be introduced and applicants will have to demonstrate they have integrated by getting a job, enrolling their kids in school and potentially joining a community organisation.

Kelsey says fair enough.

“It’s common sense, but”

“For all intensive purpose, I feel migrants shouldn’t just be allowed to play it by year”

Despite her tendency to use swearwords as exclamation points and the word ‘but’ as a full stop – Kelsey has managed to get through life as an Australians just fine with her brand of interior Australian english.

On a longwinded Facebook post last night, Kelsey says “the least emigrants can do” is learn her variation of the English language.

“Case and point, the bloke at the corner store down the road. How the fuck do I keep ended up with the Longbeach 25s when I ask for 40s”

The fact that Kelsey’s millionaire grandfather arrived here as Southern European migrant, who could only speak a certain dialect specific to her ancestor’s homeland in a tiny Island south of Greece, was not brought up.
Don't mind a bit of Betoota.

There's your fucking Aussie values right there Malcolm. Taking the piss out of dickheads like you...
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