Go Back   AFA Forums > Secularism and Social Issues > Politics

Politics Political issues which help or hinder our society

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #241  
Old 20th April 2017, 10:15 PM
pipbarber's Avatar
pipbarber pipbarber is online now
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,207
Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

Quote:
wadaye said View Post
Most Australians only speak a single language. Some immigrants, but not all, speak two or more.
Yes but English is the Lingua Franca of the nation. I'm inclined to think it ought to be a requirement for resident visa applications. Not to an unreasonable level. Ielts 5.5 to 6.0. That's able to use basic, though some abstract, language across all the skills - able to function comfortably with language use.

This is a bit off topic though.
Reply With Quote
  #242  
Old 20th April 2017, 11:26 PM
wadaye wadaye is online now
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,329
Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

Quote:
pipbarber said View Post
Quote:
wadaye said View Post
Most Australians only speak a single language. Some immigrants, but not all, speak two or more.
Yes but English is the Lingua Franca of the nation. I'm inclined to think it ought to be a requirement for resident visa applications. Not to an unreasonable level. Ielts 5.5 to 6.0. That's able to use basic, though some abstract, language across all the skills - able to function comfortably with language use.

This is a bit off topic though.
I think you are confusing a lot of issues here. English is a requirement for certain skilled business visas, but not for humanitarian or family reunion. It ought not be a requirement for citizenship. That is a very dangerous notion.
It is also arguable whether English is the lingua franca of the nation. If Turnbull spoke Anmatyerre he would have at least the ability to say he speaks an Australian language.
__________________
"I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins
Reply With Quote
Like DanDare liked this post
  #243  
Old 21st April 2017, 08:01 AM
pipbarber's Avatar
pipbarber pipbarber is online now
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,207
Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

Maybe not humanity or family reuinion but it was a component for people witching from both the 457 and the student visa, to a residency visa.

I'm undecided in relation to citizenship.
Reply With Quote
  #244  
Old 21st April 2017, 10:42 AM
wadaye wadaye is online now
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,329
Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

Those primary applicants for 457 already had passed the language test and their spouses either did the same or made a 2nd contribution to the government of around 5000. The language requirement looks like it will catch the refugees and humanitarian applicants and family reunions. There are lots of consequences in migration for not having citizenship which are not apparent to the general population.

Edit: one unintended conseqyence of increased uncertainty might be to make more babies. I am not beibg fescetious here. Deny the adult rights and they may think well at least if i have a child the child will have rights.
__________________
"I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins

Last edited by wadaye; 21st April 2017 at 10:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #245  
Old 21st April 2017, 12:23 PM
wadaye wadaye is online now
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,329
Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

The english language test for citizenship is in fact a return to the dictation test in a European language. English as an Australian language is an alternative fact
__________________
"I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins
Reply With Quote
  #246  
Old 21st April 2017, 12:26 PM
142857's Avatar
142857 142857 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,066
Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

In a lot of IT environments in Australia now, English is a second or third language when it comes to detailed technical discussions. That said, I don't think I've met a skilled immigrant or 457 worker in IT who would have any trouble breezing through an English proficiency exam.

To be honest I have worked in a lot of places around the world, mostly in places where English is not the primary language, often for years at a time. And I've never learned the local language. Mostly I've picked up a few phrases, enough to be able to give instructions to a taxi driver or order food, or to say please and thank you for example.

This is a distraction. Malcolm Turnbull is dog whistling to the xenophobes, attempting to shore up mainstream conservative support and stem the bleeding of support to Pauline Hanson and breakaway conservatives (and potential breakaways) from his own party.

Turnbull speaks about "market testing". Does he even know what that is? A simple market test would be to look at salaries of employees in an industry that claims skills shortages. If those salaries are rising more quickly than average there may be a genuine skills shortage. If those salaries have fallen dramatically over the past decade while claimed skill shortages and importation of foreign expertise has increased, then there is no genuine skills shortage.
Reply With Quote
Like Blue Lightning liked this post
Thank The Irreverent Mr Black thanked this post
  #247  
Old 21st April 2017, 12:46 PM
wadaye wadaye is online now
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,329
Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

The sellout of the labour party on this issue of the English language test is really ugly to watch
__________________
"I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins
Reply With Quote
Like 142857 liked this post
  #248  
Old 21st April 2017, 02:50 PM
pipbarber's Avatar
pipbarber pipbarber is online now
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,207
Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

This is for citizenship. So family reunion and refugee residency visas are not affected unless the holder wants to become a citizen. However if you have a permanent residency visa there is no time limit, or requirement, to become a citizen but if you really want to, then you'd have to reach a certain English level. On the face of it, i dont see a problem with this depending on where they set the bar for English.

At the moment, they are talking about 'proficiency'. But they have to define that against an existing international language test, which they havent done. For example, if they are talking about CPE (Cambridge Proficiency in English), i'd object entirely. Very few native speakers would pass the CPE exam. So it depends on the level they set, it must be realistic.

This is such an emotive policy. Everyone is getting very passionate about it but i think these changes are relatively minor and only seem to really change the game for future skilled workers. It wouldnt surprise me if a sneaky clause was added that re-opened that residency door.

I think this is just Turnbull playing politics.
Reply With Quote
  #249  
Old 21st April 2017, 03:26 PM
wadaye wadaye is online now
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,329
Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

@Pip i can understand English being a requirement for many jobs but not for citizenship. It is fundamentally racial discrimination.
It is not emotional or passionate to point this out.
__________________
"I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins
Reply With Quote
Like DanDare liked this post
  #250  
Old 21st April 2017, 03:32 PM
wadaye wadaye is online now
AFA Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,329
Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

I didn't want to drag this out but the issue reminds me of the obnoxious tshirts which were derigour in the western suburbs of sydney in the eighties, "Speak English or Die"
__________________
"I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 02:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.