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  #221  
Old 4th October 2016, 01:21 PM
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pipbarber said View Post
...on the other hand, whats Greg Hunt taking these days. Suddenly he seems progressive on environmental issues after being a conservative environment minister. Curious.
Unlike the rest I think Hunt floats in the breeze of public opinion and may just have woken up to a few things. Doesn't make him a good politician, it just means that unlike Malcolm Abbott he is looking further than the back bench.
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  #222  
Old 18th April 2017, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-1...-visas/8450310

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The Federal Government will abolish the 457 visa and replace it with two new visas, Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull says.

Key points:

* The move is about "jobs for Australians," the PM says
If the concern was over the misuse of the 457 visa program.... why ban it? Why not enforce the existing rules?

My suspicion: It makes more sense from the government's point of view to appear to be doing something... while actually making it easier for their financial supporters to bring in cheap foreign labour.
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  #223  
Old 18th April 2017, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

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142857 said View Post
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-1...-visas/8450310



If the concern was over the misuse of the 457 visa program.... why ban it? Why not enforce the existing rules?

My suspicion: It makes more sense from the government's point of view to appear to be doing something... while actually making it easier for their financial supporters to bring in cheap foreign labour.
I haven't looked at the proposal in any detail, because the 'two new visas' are short on detail, but the 457 did have its problems with migration outcomes that the government couldnt control. That's the positive take. On the other hand, it makes sense for the government to be appearing to do something but actually just renaming the 457 visa something else. Who the fuck knows...

Interesting nod to Trumpism in that link and the number of times Australia's 'interests' were mentioned. Australia first anyone?
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  #224  
Old 19th April 2017, 02:09 AM
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

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142857 said View Post
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-1...-visas/8450310



If the concern was over the misuse of the 457 visa program.... why ban it? Why not enforce the existing rules?

My suspicion: It makes more sense from the government's point of view to appear to be doing something... while actually making it easier for their financial supporters to bring in cheap foreign labour.
Apparently the hospitality industry is the second largest user of 457 visas. Now, I am not in that game so I don't know the training requirements, but I thought hospitality trades were fairly easy to learn, being mostly trained under vocational regimes?

Now I know the vocational training system is a total cluster fuck atm. But ever so, to be bringing in people trained in that space in the numbers reported with there are 800,000 out of work sounds like a broken scheme to me.

Otherwise as you allude to 142857, I want to see the detail before I pass judgement on this plan.
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  #225  
Old 19th April 2017, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

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Sieveboy said View Post
Apparently the hospitality industry is the second largest user of 457 visas. Now, I am not in that game so I don't know the training requirements, but I thought hospitality trades were fairly easy to learn, being mostly trained under vocational regimes?

Now I know the vocational training system is a total cluster fuck atm. But ever so, to be bringing in people trained in that space in the numbers reported with there are 800,000 out of work sounds like a broken scheme to me.

Otherwise as you allude to 142857, I want to see the detail before I pass judgement on this plan.
There are definitions that are useful here. The Australian unemployment rate is currently at 5.9% which is pretty close to the accepted definition rates of "full employment" of between 3 and 5.5%. It's an economic position that holds that even if you provide a job for every single person there is still going to be an unemployment rate of between 3 and 5.5% due to peoples decision to change jobs or lifestyle, move to a different part of the country, or simply a mismatch between skills and available positions. It's this last component that 457 Visa's are meant to address.

It's all very well starting up a new French Restaurant but if there are no French pastry chefs available you simply can't just stop serving people while a person is supplied with the required skill set through training. So if you can't find one locally you get to look for one overseas on a special visa.

I don't see any sort of intrinsic problem with the scheme, if it's a choice between importing one skilled worker and opening a restaurant that will provide a number of other more easily filled jobs, source food and beverages from local companies and provide work for transport companies and various other service industries, or not opening at all because of the lack of one particular skilled person it's really a no brainer.

If the system is being abused it's either a badly designed system or the rules aren't being followed.

Yes it is highly likely that the hospitality industry of them because many of the skills required simply aren't being trained in Australia. The local restaurant here has a chef from New Orleans because the skills they require aren't available in Australia. The best French Chefs are taught in France and you can't learn how to make the perfect Gumbo in Australia.
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  #226  
Old 19th April 2017, 09:46 AM
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

Apparently, the new visa will cover this Steve. People will still be able to come here to work on a skilled employee visa but only for two years, instead of four and with no residency option at the end.

The 457 was problematic because provided you ticked all the boxes, the residency stamp was forthcoming. This made it difficult to manage immigration numbers and i suspect that's the motivation for the change. Well, that and a nod to the far right xenophobes in order to keep them pinned to the coalition.
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  #227  
Old 19th April 2017, 10:30 AM
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stevebrooks said View Post

There are definitions that are useful here. The Australian unemployment rate is currently at 5.9% which is pretty close to the accepted definition rates of "full employment" of between 3 and 5.5%. It's an economic position that holds that even if you provide a job for every single person there is still going to be an unemployment rate of between 3 and 5.5% due to peoples decision to change jobs or lifestyle, move to a different part of the country, or simply a mismatch between skills and available positions. It's this last component that 457 Visa's are meant to address.

It's all very well starting up a new French Restaurant but if there are no French pastry chefs available you simply can't just stop serving people while a person is supplied with the required skill set through training. So if you can't find one locally you get to look for one overseas on a special visa.

I don't see any sort of intrinsic problem with the scheme, if it's a choice between importing one skilled worker and opening a restaurant that will provide a number of other more easily filled jobs, source food and beverages from local companies and provide work for transport companies and various other service industries, or not opening at all because of the lack of one particular skilled person it's really a no brainer.

If the system is being abused it's either a badly designed system or the rules aren't being followed.

Yes it is highly likely that the hospitality industry of them because many of the skills required simply aren't being trained in Australia. The local restaurant here has a chef from New Orleans because the skills they require aren't available in Australia. The best French Chefs are taught in France and you can't learn how to make the perfect Gumbo in Australia.
Hi Steve, didn't mean to imply that you wouldn't get chefs trained overseas here. However, it seems suspect to me that there were 4,000 odd chefs on 457s. On my phone so hard to link details.
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  #228  
Old 19th April 2017, 10:35 AM
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Apparently, the new visa will cover this Steve. People will still be able to come here to work on a skilled employee visa but only for two years, instead of four and with no residency option at the end.

The 457 was problematic because provided you ticked all the boxes, the residency stamp was forthcoming. This made it difficult to manage immigration numbers and i suspect that's the motivation for the change. Well, that and a nod to the far right xenophobes in order to keep them pinned to the coalition.
Interesting, the PR/citizenship pathway that 457 used to have is one way that the scheme is prevented from being the rort of cheap compliant skilled labour that anecdotal stories often referred to. Once .457 visa, who must remain employed to maintain their visa, gets PR/citizenship you can't use the threat of termination and hence loss of visa to keep your costs down.
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  #229  
Old 19th April 2017, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

Quote:
Sieveboy said View Post
Hi Steve, didn't mean to imply that you wouldn't get chefs trained overseas here. However, it seems suspect to me that there were 4,000 odd chefs on 457s. On my phone so hard to link details.
I may currently be sitting quite close to a person who is ex-Immigration, and from a legal sort of area, though they are no lawyer.

Quoth that person:
Quote:
Many moons ago, a certain local chain-franchise food place, that might resonate along the lines of "Go make a brew", advertised for a chef with a very specific set of culinary skills, plus fluency in a language which was basically the localised creole of a certain foreign-originated ethnic group from an island nation with less than a million inhabitants.

If this wasn't targeting a family member of the proprietors, it would almost certainly be tailored for somebody from very near to the old homestead.
I saw something very similar in a recruitment ad in the local rag recently.
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  #230  
Old 19th April 2017, 01:40 PM
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Default Re: The Malcolm Turnbull thread

Many positive benefits have been claimed for the 457 visa program.

Perhaps we should look at one of the industries that has most heavily utilised 457 visas to see what happens in practice, rather than in theory or in certain very limited scenarios.

I have worked in IT for 33 years. Entry-level jobs have been all but wiped out. I currently work for a mid-sized IT company in Sydney, with around 40 or 50 employees. This company has literally never had an Australian-born person in a technical role (I am in a non-technical role).

Entry-level and even mid-level roles have been all but wiped out progressively over the past 17 years or so. Salaries have been stagnant for years and in relative terms have fallen significantly. The number of students studying IT degrees has fallen by half, completion rates are poor (around 50%) and employment outcomes are literally worse than for any other degree (below 50%). The few entry-level roles that are available tend to be what were once considered to be dead-end roles.

I've got no problems living in a multicultural society and working in a multicultural environment, I have done so for all of my career. Most of my colleagues express the same concerns, and none of them are Australian-born. Most of the highly qualified, overseas-born and educated IT professional taxi-drivers I meet (rare these days as I can't afford to catch taxis) say the same thing as well.
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