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#61
10th March 2017, 11:18 PM
 pipbarber AFA Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3,129
Re: Why the tax system favors gentrification

Quote:
 Strato said With their license to make their trillions comes often harmful determination over the lives of the many. Socialism in politics exercises constraint, taxes on the super wealthy .1% to enable the flourishing of the ordinary citizen, pursue international peace and the environment ongoing. It arises from social conscience and justice. We can't rely on the Bill Gates and Warren Buffet style philanthropist to address disadvantage and poverty. There has to be rational and prudential redistribution. Commercialism is deleterious. Education is indispensable. How do we demote the one and promote the other?
I would think we regulate and tax, we can do all those things now, there just isnt the popular will yet but structurally i dont think its impossible.

For example, you could reform the tax system and have earnings over X$millions pa taxed at 100% unless spent on approved research, such as medical, environmental science, automation - which might attract a tax subsidy or provide a share over any future earnings for the investor. Idealistic i know, especially as i'm fully aware of how little tax wealthy people actually pay due to an array of clauses and schemes and all manner of perfectly legal accounting practices that reduce personal income to nothing. Didnt Gina Rinehart qualify for a health care card a few years back? Personal income 16K or something? Well, that has to end. As for these industrialists, they are not the future, their time is over, polluting industries just need to be taxed away or we're all going to fucking die! There are no simple solutions but thats a pretty simple imperative. #62 11th March 2017, 09:56 AM  Darwinsbulldog AFA Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth Posts: 18,820 Re: Why the tax system favors gentrification @ pipbarber:- I wasn't claiming by the way, a communism based on Marx's notions, which were obviously very flawed, so I see now how I have confused you. In the puppy mind, communism [ideally] is about the emphasis of community, so perhaps I confused myself also! I do find it hard to believe that solutions to the world's many problems can be fixed within a right-wing framework. Most of the right wing these days is big money allied to big religion, which cherry-picks from science and technology for their own ends. The cold war proved that both left and right were found severely wanting, as neither side found solutions about how to live well and sustainably, but brought the world to MAD brinkmanship. Of course, I don't want the world to return to MAD, but the fact remains that the left, with all its faults, was an alternative to the right, and now it has all but vanished, just leaving a globalist right. Because the right won, the left is discredited. But the right is discredited too, because it is failing to address environmental and social issues. So what is happening? With no left to speak of, people are turning to Trumpism and Britexit. Trump's "solution" to the problems of globalisation is protectionism and scape-goating. So the solution to right wing ideology and practice is to move further to the right? There is no doubt that both globalisation and automation bring great benefits, but also come with great costs. But the lack of debate, the polarisation of the issues, scares me. Transglobal corporatism has no natural enemies. With nation-states surrendering their sovereignty via privatisation and "free-trade agreements" there are no brakes or boundaries to globalisation, and all the evils of the system are beginning to outweigh the benefits. In short the new system can't be dismantled. Or even moderated. But this has happened before, in miniature. The British East India Company, for example. It became a quasi-state, with its own navy and army, and the power to make laws and regulations. But some of its operations resulted in mass deaths by starvation in India, and this revolted even the most of the dedicated capitalist. The result was that the EIC's powers were eventually curtailed, and eventually, the company was dissolved. How do we do that to global corporatism? If globalisation gets out of hand? [I would argue it already has, and will get worse]. There is nothing to control it, to moderate it's behaviour, or if necessary, dismantle it. IMHO, it would take the combined authority of all 200+ nation states to act in perfect unison, and even then I am not sure they would regain control of the monster. __________________ Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction. #63 11th March 2017, 06:05 PM  pipbarber AFA Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3,129 Re: Why the tax system favors gentrification Quote:  Darwinsbulldog said @ pipbarber:- I wasn't claiming by the way, a communism based on Marx's notions, which were obviously very flawed, so I see now how I have confused you. In the puppy mind, communism [ideally] is about the emphasis of community, so perhaps I confused myself also! Yep, i think we both failed a little to define our terms here. All cool. Quote:  I do find it hard to believe that solutions to the world's many problems can be fixed within a right-wing framework. Most of the right wing these days is big money allied to big religion, which cherry-picks from science and technology for their own ends. The cold war proved that both left and right were found severely wanting, as neither side found solutions about how to live well and sustainably, but brought the world to MAD brinkmanship. Of course, I don't want the world to return to MAD, but the fact remains that the left, with all its faults, was an alternative to the right, and now it has all but vanished, just leaving a globalist right. Because the right won, the left is discredited. But the right is discredited too, because it is failing to address environmental and social issues. So what is happening? With no left to speak of, people are turning to Trumpism and Britexit. Trump's "solution" to the problems of globalisation is protectionism and scape-goating. So the solution to right wing ideology and practice is to move further to the right? There is no doubt that both globalisation and automation bring great benefits, but also come with great costs. But the lack of debate, the polarisation of the issues, scares me. Transglobal corporatism has no natural enemies. With nation-states surrendering their sovereignty via privatisation and "free-trade agreements" there are no brakes or boundaries to globalisation, and all the evils of the system are beginning to outweigh the benefits. In short the new system can't be dismantled. Or even moderated. But this has happened before, in miniature. The British East India Company, for example. It became a quasi-state, with its own navy and army, and the power to make laws and regulations. But some of its operations resulted in mass deaths by starvation in India, and this revolted even the most of the dedicated capitalist. The result was that the EIC's powers were eventually curtailed, and eventually, the company was dissolved. How do we do that to global corporatism? If globalisation gets out of hand? [I would argue it already has, and will get worse]. There is nothing to control it, to moderate it's behaviour, or if necessary, dismantle it. IMHO, it would take the combined authority of all 200+ nation states to act in perfect unison, and even then I am not sure they would regain control of the monster. I try not to despair, unsuccessfully often, but there is reason for hope. Its very 1930s at the moment, and European fascism was completely smashed for decades after the war. Whilst i dont wish a conventional war upon us we are in may ways at war right now, with the health of the planet. These simplistic right wing solutions will be smashed eventually, given the trajectory of our species, we will overcome them, we have to, i live in hope because humans are awesome. Corporations simply need to be part of the solution and many are. Elon Musk for example. Just yesterday he offered to install a 100MW battery storage facility in South Australia for$33 million and have it running in 100 days or it'll be free. Given SA's energy profile this is exactly what is needed even at that price tag.

I guess i'm still in the reform camp, rather than the revolt party. Granted, reform needs to be deep and structural and corporations need to come on board, not a simple matter, but for now thats my view.
#64
11th March 2017, 06:34 PM
 Darwinsbulldog AFA Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth Posts: 18,820
Re: Why the tax system favors gentrification

pipbarber wrote:-
[QUOTE]I try not to despair, unsuccessfully often, but there is reason for hope.

Quote:
 Its very 1930s at the moment, and European fascism was completely smashed for decades after the war. Whilst i dont wish a conventional war upon us we are in may ways at war right now, with the health of the planet. These simplistic right wing solutions will be smashed eventually, given the trajectory of our species, we will overcome them, we have to, i live in hope because humans are awesome. Corporations simply need to be part of the solution and many are. Elon Musk for example. Just yesterday he offered to install a 100MW battery storage facility in South Australia for \$33 million and have it running in 100 days or it'll be free. Given SA's energy profile this is exactly what is needed even at that price tag. I guess i'm still in the reform camp, rather than the revolt party. Granted, reform needs to be deep and structural and corporations need to come on board, not a simple matter, but for now thats my view
Just for the record, I am not anti-corporation in principle. Corporations at the national and sub-national level [unless they are owned by a multinational] are controllable. As I have said elsewhere and above, the moderation of the big transnationals is in almost everybody's interests, including smaller corporations, governments of ALL political flavours, and ordinary people everywhere.

I don't even blame the BIG corporations, they are doing what they are supposed to do, make profits, increase their market share, pay dividends. AND, OBEY THE LAW.

But how can a transnational obey the law? There is no one law. One country might not give a toss about greenhouse gases or child labour, or child care at work or whatever. They have to work within the law of the jurisdiction [or at least, not get caught].

So if a law minimises profit, they go offshore, or influence government to write clauses into free trade agreements to get compensation from the government that tries to stop child labour, or pollution, or whatever the fuck.

Or they can break the law and outspend the government in the law courts. Some developing countries can only afford a few dollars a year per head on health care. I am willing to bet they also cannot afford to hire battalions of queens' counsels to fight a Microsoft anti-trust case, or prove VW was telling porkies about their anti-pollution control in their cars.

This used to be a third world problem [bad enough right there!!], but now people in rich nations are getting exactly the same treatment. So auto plants close, they lose their jobs and vote for Trump. Trump won't solve their problem because Muslims or the yellow hoards didn't steal their jobs---automation did. But let's build the wall to keep the Mexicans out anyway.

How can we even get a discussion going??/, never mind finding some real solutions and getting everyone on the same page.
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Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.
#65
11th March 2017, 07:15 PM
 pipbarber AFA Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3,129
Re: Why the tax system favors gentrification

Small steps small reforms and more global intergovernmental cooperation? Things are better now than they were on so many fronts and levels. We have the imperative of climate apocalypse at our heals right now so there is an urgency at play but i see no way forward but to plug away. Alas, i'm quite sure things will need to reach a critical point before we take a large stride forward so, we just do what we can, here and now.
#66
12th March 2017, 04:34 PM
 Sieveboy Being a bigot makes me sick. Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Not in bible land, Perth Posts: 5,624
Re: Why the tax system favors gentrification

Interesting point here from Paul Malone at the SMH

Quote:
 here's a figure you rarely hear the prime minister or treasurer mention when they discuss the economy. It's wages' share of our national income.There's good reason for the government's reluctance to publicise the numbers. They don't paint a pretty picture. The latest calculation shows the share of national income flowing to employees has dropped from 62.7 per cent in the mid-1970s to 52.3 per cent in the December quarter of 2016. Over the same period the share of national income going to profits has risen steadily from 16.5 per cent to 26.5 per cent.
The article notes some of this does flow back to us the workers via Superannuation.

I don't agree with the totality of the article, but some points are correct.
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#67
18th March 2017, 07:23 AM
 wadaye AFA Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,686
Re: Why the tax system favors gentrification

The Superannuation scheme is the real nanny state. Instead of the State making people take responsibility for funding their own retirement out of say their own assets like their home (think reverse mortgage), the government gives them money, overwhelmingly more to the richer, by way of massive tax concessions. Those who are poor are slugged now to put their money in unguaranteed super funds with all their charges, and their pay is thereby reduced. That impedes their ability to compete in for example the housing market.
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#68
18th March 2017, 07:27 AM
 wadaye AFA Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,686
Re: Why the tax system favors gentrification

Strato those works by Engels sound interesting. I was wondering if there might be a librivox audio recording of that, and it turns out 8 of his books are recorded in librivox here

Here is the link for the Condition of the Working Class in England, or by chapter it can be downloaded or streamed here

Doing these librivox recordings (they're all done by volunteers remotely from home) must certainly be good practice for public speaking or broadcasting.

And here Engel's intro to Marx's on Wage Labour seems like it speaks to us right now today, especially the last 6 or 7 minutes from about 16 minutes to the end of the section at 22 minutes. The only thing I would criticise is the retrospectively naive idea that increasing inequality will lead to the collapse of capitalism (and triumph of justice).
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Last edited by wadaye; 18th March 2017 at 08:03 AM.
#69
20th March 2017, 02:45 PM
 Darwinsbulldog AFA Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth Posts: 18,820
Re: Why the tax system favors gentrification

I think what will solve some of the problem is that disadvantaged people don't have a stake in the system. I spent 20 years in the old State Housing Commission [now Homeswest], and one thing I noticed is that if people are given a stake in something, they will almost always look after it.

So every Australian Citizen that does not privately own land now should be given some crown land of equivalent commercial value*. [This especially includes indigenous Australians [which is really returning some of the land belonging to them] and the motley crews that came out here in the last two hundred years.

Then, by using their plot of land as equity, they be given a loan below market rates to build a house. [Of course something has to be done about full time, permanent employment for all concerned].

This would slash waste in the welfare budget, by bringing up people to a level where they no longer need depend on handouts. it would still be a two-tier system, but then at least, everyone would have one step on the ladder. If they want more, then they get by hard work and enterprise.

This would be funded by realistic taxes on resources and especially international corporations paying their fair share of tax.

With so many more people in the property market wanting to build, there would be a housing boom for new establishments, and thus a great demand for trades, which if given reasonably priced [ie government subsidised] TAFE training for all the relevant trades.

Negative gearing would be phased out depending on the number and value of investment properties per person, and capital gains on a sliding scale as well. This would make it viable for Mom and Pop investors, but also allow large [development] corporations to pay reasonable levels of taxation on earnings.

* equivalent commercial value: meaning you don't give some a block in Mayfair and others a plot on Old Kent Road.

I don't see how this can't be sold to the corporate sector, because a citizenry with assets and buying power is going to buy goods and services. A happy citizenry means less political turmoil, which is also good for business.

I can't see a downside, it is win-win for everyone. It gives a blended solution to problems by taking the best there is from the right and left of the ideological spectrum and applying those ideas to solve deep problems in our society.

People who feel less disenfranchised will be less tempted by despair to drugs, and less crime will make everyone feel safer.

The present situation cannot go on. Less and less people feel secure in their employment, or in their home [because they can't own one]. Health budgets are in crisis because of drugs and other ill health caused by gross inequalities of income, wealth and opportunity.

Despite the worst aspects of globalisation and automations, solutions to these problems must be found, or democracy, freedom and civil society generally, will be lost.
__________________
Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.
#70
20th March 2017, 05:20 PM
 The Irreverent Mr Black Endorses the use of condoms with eyeholes. Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Toontown Posts: 5,762
Re: Why the tax system favors gentrification

Sir Pup, if I wanted Sydney harbourside, but got Western Backabuggari, would I be compensated?
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