OVERSPILL - "Our Say" thread: foreign participation discussion - Page 2

IVPITER · #11 18th July 2012, 12:49 PM

Was what PZ Myers said wrong though? My limited understanding is that the science is settled on anthropogenic climate change being real. To say otherwise is is to deny the scientific evidence and irrational or "wingnutty".

Quote:

When we talk about a Carbon tax we take away the options of people who differ in opinion. This is particularly hurtful when we were assured that those options would be left open.

What options? And how does talking about a carbon tax take away those options?

I'm glad the same-sex marriage question is second. For a little while it was fourth.

ifonlea · #12 18th July 2012, 12:56 PM

Passive-aggressive or not I must go.

Hubby is due home from work and my adrenaline has receded.

To each his own I guess both in matters of religion or climate change.

Praxis · #13 18th July 2012, 02:15 PM

Ifonlea, I take an interest in the politics and machinations of many countries. I have often voted in polls in other countries because I'm interested in the topic. I live in a global village

Having international people interested in our appalling NSCP program is, I think, actually a very good thing. The Americans in particular, in that country full of fundies, are actually astounded at the program and struggle to comprehend how our government can not only fund it, but be actively seen to support it when it is clearly an open run for evangelists. I have no problem with them voting to have the question put to the Prime Minister. Her response may very well be of interest to other countries.

It also doesn't change the question at all - the original question remains as is, posed by David Nicholls. The comments are just comments but do not alter the question.

I don't feel there's anything 'fundie' about questioning this dreadful program, nor in shoring up support. As has been pointed out, the AFA didn't do it, I understand that PZ "Pharyngulated" the poll after being alerted to it by an Australian atheist who knew of his interest in the subject).

I would think that very few people who truly understand what people like Access Ministries and Scripture Union have as their bottom line agenda (the recruitment of 'little soldiers for Jebus' from our secular state schools), if they are not fundamentalist christians themselves, actually support the program as it currently stands. And that's part of the problem as I see it - many people don't really know what it is. The brochure is all shiny and pretty but scratch the surface just a bit, and the darker intent quickly emerges. Our children should not be subjected to this, let alone have it so ably supported and funded by our government.

And as I fail completely to see the link between the NSCP program and the questioning thereof and climate change denialists/skeptics/acceptors so I won't venture into that area.

Cheers

Logic please · #14 18th July 2012, 06:11 PM

Doneded x 7.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifonlea

I have been a member here for a long time but I have never thought that I would be ashamed to see a post like this.

Have the AFA descended to the like of GetUp to enlist the votes of Americans who care nothing about our politics?
...
I admit that the question of Australian Chaplains is important but I am ashamed to see our opportunity to question the PM hijacked by a bunch of foreigners, many of whom probably would not even be able to point out Australia on a map. (my emphasis)

Hmmm, I see. So by that logic, I (as a non-American) should have no opportunity to have a say about the issues surrounding Jessica Ahlquist, for example? Or to speak up when atheists in another country are being persectuted?

Never mind the inherent sweeping generalisations about whether or not those poll participants can/do genuinely care about what is occurring in other countries.

I also note that PZ's involvement might reach other Australians who may not otherwise come across this poll, giving them an opportunity to contribute. Is that not a good thing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifonlea

Do you want to hear the opinion of people who refer to global warming sceptics as wingnutty global climate change denialists?

Whether you believe in the human contribution to global warming or not this type of attack is intolerable and does not lend any authenticity of PZ Myers' plea to his readers.

Unless you can demonstrate a relevant link between their views on climate change etc, and their views on the NCSP, this appears to be an attempt at ad-hominem dismissal.