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Introduce Yourself Please introduce yourself and share what makes you faithless or faithful.

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  #21  
Old 28th January 2009, 05:39 PM
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Duffy Duffy is offline
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Like I said before, I accept that it probably is a throwback to my theist days. I worked my way out of theism in steps: first doubting one aspect of the religion, then questioning other aspects, then questioning the religion, then questioning all religions. The place where my questioning stopped was the cosmological argument for the simple reason that it didn't really matter any more.

I completely accept that deism is a bit of a Russell's Teapot and I certainly don't have any answers to any of the questions you ask. I suppose that makes me an agnostic-deist? *shrug*
I think that is a great and very honest answer. It can't be assumed that everyone, including atheists, have always reached a full conclusion to what they think and believe. There is so much more information and so many great, thought provoking theories and facts out there to discover that only ones with an open mind will benefit from it all. Cheers
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  #22  
Old 28th January 2009, 11:09 PM
Kerri-Lee Kerri-Lee is offline
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Welcome. I'm new to all the terminology too so I have to ask, are you sure you aren't hedging your bets with the deism?
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  #23  
Old 28th January 2009, 11:26 PM
alanqui alanqui is offline
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hello Serenity

Nice name, maybe I will become Firefly. You can't stop the Signal
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  #24  
Old 28th January 2009, 11:31 PM
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Serenity Serenity is offline
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I don't think it fits into the Pascal's Wager framework because my accepting the possibility doesn't impact on my life. I don't pray to to possibility nor make any promises to it. I don't live a life as though I am being watched or as if my actions have any beyond-the-grave consequences.

It's not so much hedging my bets as a bookmark for research once my other more pressing study concerns are dealt with
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  #25  
Old 28th January 2009, 11:32 PM
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Serenity Serenity is offline
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hello Serenity

Nice name, maybe I will become Firefly. You can't stop the Signal
Shiny
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  #26  
Old 28th January 2009, 11:37 PM
Kerri-Lee Kerri-Lee is offline
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Sorry for my last posting. Stupidly I had only read the first page and everyone has well and truly moved on. I am also curious and quite ignorant of religion so I'm going to risk your laughter by saying I thought you couldn't leave Islam, only on pain of death. Please save me from my ignorance.

What are you thoughts on cosmologists like Stephen Hawking who are suggesting (still working on the maths)that there was no beginning and there will be no end to the universe?
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  #27  
Old 29th January 2009, 12:05 AM
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Serenity Serenity is offline
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You can't really stop people from believing when they have opened their eyes to the atrocities and absurdities of the religion. There are many apostates, many of them silent because yes, under Sharia law, it is a crime and, taking the moderate approach as they do, they lop yer head off for it.

But I am lucky to have been born in the UK and to live in Australia where I have religious freedom and can state that I no longer believe confident that the state will protect me and my rights to do so.

My thoughts on Steven Hawkings is that he understands cosmology far better than I likely ever could and so I bow to his superior understanding of his field. Perhaps I'll read the Cliff Notes of his works at some point The idea of infinity bothers me but I can't pin-point why. I shall put it down to ignorance of the matter.
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  #28  
Old 29th January 2009, 09:00 AM
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It's not so much hedging my bets as a bookmark for research once my other more pressing study concerns are dealt with
I like that, well put. The Hitchens v Turek debate broaches the subject of 'something from nothing' and is a pretty good representation of both the deist and atheist perpective. I know Turek then muddies the waters with theism, but he's a tool. I think from what scientist know and don't know, makes deism difficult to argue and relies much on faith. Theism is another thing and evolution has TKO'd that sucker long ago.

As for Sharia law, how do countries deal with it when the muslims immigrate? I support people's personal choices but can't reconcile that with a religion of oppression.
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  #29  
Old 29th January 2009, 09:42 AM
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Serenity Serenity is offline
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Turek gives me the creeping irrits. There's no way I could sit through his garbled, cringe-worthy arguments, particularly when he (obviously and therefore unsuccessfully) uses every trick in the book to get the audience on his side, relying on (non-existent) charisma to buoy crappy logic.

In short, I haven't seen the debate past the first video

Regarding Sharia law, I don't really know how it works. I grew up in a moderate Muslim household and while we had to observe some strict rules and regulations, they didn't go against British law so there wasn't a conflict. The worst I have seen is people being sent "back home" to get married at the age of 14 and 15.

I'd imagine if you were from a more fundamentalist household, there would be more punishment from parents, elders, the mosque and the community for transgression. While there is some sort of direction in either the Quran or that Hadiths (can't remember which off-hand) that Muslims must follow the laws of the land in which they live, there are significantly more directions that God's law is higher than any man made law. What this seems to often translate to in real life is that Sharia law is still practised but hidden from the authorities.
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Old 29th January 2009, 09:22 PM
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  #30  
Old 29th January 2009, 09:29 PM
Cody Cody is offline
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The idea of infinity bothers me but I can't pin-point why.
Your intuition may be onto something, even mathematics (as far as I understand it) has trouble dealing with infinite values.
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