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#21
3rd January 2018, 11:22 AM
 Mjt AFA Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: rural Posts: 5,901
Re: Legalise Cannabis

In Toronto they have pharmacies that distribute green via a doctors authorization. This authorization usually takes the form of a Skype consultation with a doctor. Being unable to sleep is a good enough reason to get your prescription.

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#22
3rd January 2018, 05:27 PM
 Darwinsbulldog AFA Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth Posts: 18,672
Re: Legalise Cannabis

Quote:
 pipbarber said @DB Its a novel idea to get a medical certificate to say its safe to consume thc recreationally but how would that be determined and by who? And if you failed to get the license you just buy it from your local black market source anyway and as has been noted above, you have no control over the strength and strain of the compound, so to me, this seems counterproductive. And if you do get your license, where do you buy your gear? The black market again. Also, i'm not sure i'd attribute drug taking to 'inequitable society' and 'religion, greed, and just plain assholeness.' No doubt that may be the case in some, maybe many, instances but there is evidence that humans have been using drugs and alcohol since before the agricultural revolution, and not just humans. See our recent thread on dolphin parties. I'm not convinced by your argument here DB, although i do share your concern regarding thc and mental health. I just think the best way to ameliorate the mental health problem connected to cannabis use is to legalise, control, manufacture and destigmatise.
If you go to the doctor, and she says, fine, your tests say you are not likely to be addicted to drug X, and then you can get a prescription to to go get drug X.

For example, I can't get a lot of drugs now without a prescription, but if I have a need [or a want] for a drug I would need one. It is not that antibiotics or epinephrine are illegal, there are just constraints on their use.

That is why I used the word "decriminalisation". I don't want psychoactive/addictive drugs to be totally available, or as easy to buy as aspirin. [I am not ignoring recreational use here].

But I think a reasonable level of "duty of care" by the drug user, their suppliers, etc is not unreasonable.

I have no clue about what the street price of drugs are except they are way above the cost of manufacturing them.

In any case, you are not going to stop drug abuse by legalising something. Valium is a legal drug, available on prescription, and yet many people get addicted to it.

The advantage of prescription status for any drug is that you get the pure drug, and properly calibrated concentrations/dosages. And because it is legally manufactured , you don't have the problem of illicit drugs, drug-related crimes, mafia etc. And it is cheaper.

But putting it on shop shelves, like it was aspirin or something, is just plain silly, IMHO.

Alcohol and tobacco have been freely available for many years, and look what happened.

Drug misuse can cause a lot of harm to society and self, so I don't think it is unreasonable that society tries to regulate use. On the other hand, we have freedoms and concern about the nanny state.

But it seems to me if we have the medical technology to predict drug abuse, we should use it. Should we compel a person contemplating drug use to get medical advice? Or just make it part of our culture, and urge people to get a medical screen to say how vulnerable they are to addiction or the effects of the drug on them?

Of course we don't have that situation now, because society, and even doctors, have a "moral" view about drugs, especially of the "recreational" type. So that shit has to change also.

I guess most of us know someone who has dies or has suffered or is suffering from some form of drug abuse. Do we accept this cost for the sake of those lucky enough to abuse drugs without serious consequences?

My tendency is more medicalisation, and less criminalisation of the drug problem. Excaclty how that should be framed, is not known, at least to me. I don't like either extreme of authoritarianism/punishment, vs total freedom, but somewhere in between.
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#23
3rd January 2018, 06:08 PM
 pipbarber AFA Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3,074
Re: Legalise Cannabis

Medicalisation along lines you suggest would be a good start, almost a stepping stone toward full legalisation, DB. I think it would be a move in the right direction so i won't argue the point. I do wonder though whether any gp has at their disposal the means to determine if someone is likely to become addicted to cannabis, or even if cannabis is likely to spark a mental disorder. How would that be determined medically?

In any case, we will soon have longish term data from the various places where cannabis is fully legal and then we'll be able to make a more evidenced base decision regarding the issues you've raised.
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#24
3rd January 2018, 06:09 PM
 The Irreverent Mr Black Today is today. Tomorrow is uncertain. Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Toontown Posts: 5,261
Re: Legalise Cannabis

Expect lots of special pleading from parties with interests in tobacco and alcohol.
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#25
3rd January 2018, 06:15 PM
 SEG AFA Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Hills District of Sydney Posts: 520
Re: Legalise Cannabis

Smoking weed is currently the most common form of ingestion, and it is a health concern because of the way it is held deeply in the lungs plus all of the toxins and other physical and mental side effects. See:

https://www.livescience.com/24558-ma...a-effects.html

I personally would enjoy it again if it didn't damage my health via hash cookies etc, but alas, it seems to produce tachycardia, which I suffer from normally. I would like to see it legalised for other reasons though. For example my son is a paraplegic and it reduces his leg spasms.
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#26
3rd January 2018, 06:23 PM
 pipbarber AFA Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3,074
Re: Legalise Cannabis

Quote:
 The Irreverent Mr Black said Expect lots of special pleading from parties with interests in tobacco and alcohol.
Oh yes, though the alcohol industry have all sorts of other battles facing them at the moment, thanks to the good wowsers of public health.

Quote:
 Aussie drinkers face paying more for booze under radical health plan DRINKERS would face significant price increases for beer and wine under a proposal to cut Australians’ alcohol *consumption. Under the draft plan, *released by federal and state ministers, the cost of all *alcoholic drinks would not be allowed to fall below a set level. Industry sources expect that base would be $1.50 per standard drink, leading to rises on a raft of cheap booze options. A slab of Victoria Bitter — with 24 cans holding 1.4 standard drinks — now costs about$47 but would jump to over $50. A bottle of Yarraglen Yellow sparkling wine would increase from about$7 to nearly $10. But a$10 four-litre cask of Golden Oak dry white wine holds the equivalent of 30 standard drinks — and that volume would mean a shocking price rise to at least $45. My bold. Just to highlight this rise, the current price of said 4 litre cask is around$10. This is basically prohibition for the poor. That means we all start making our own booze, as i already do, but there are risks involved and wine making is a craft not easily acquired. More at source, certainly not sauce. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/aus...61fcf152fccd2b

Bit off topic, apologies.
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#27
3rd January 2018, 06:34 PM
 pipbarber AFA Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3,074
Re: Legalise Cannabis

Quote:
 SEG said Smoking weed is currently the most common form of ingestion, and it is a health concern because of the way it is held deeply in the lungs plus all of the toxins and other physical and mental side effects. See: https://www.livescience.com/24558-ma...a-effects.html I personally would enjoy it again if it didn't damage my health via hash cookies etc, but alas, it seems to produce tachycardia, which I suffer from normally. I would like to see it legalised for other reasons though. For example my son is a paraplegic and it reduces his leg spasms.
There are many ways to ingest thc that don't require combustion but all those products do require legalisation, development and manufacturing. For medical purposes i think CBD is what is most needed? Perhaps it depends on the condition.

From the huffpost's review of a cannabis expo:

Quote:
 Many of the products ​use ingredients derived from marijuana and hemp, but no marijuana was for sale. Instead, the product of choice was cannabidiol, better known as CBD, ​one of the non-psychoactive ingredients found in the cannabis plant that does not produce the “high” associated with marijuana's better-known chemical ingredient, THC. CBD is legal in many, but not all, states under some circumstances (its status at the federal level is more complicated). In preclinical studies, CBD has been proven to help in the treatment of various conditions like chronic pain, anxiety, nausea, rheumatoid arthritis, schizophrenia, diabetes, PTSD, alcoholism, strokes and cardiovascular disease, and cancer.
Some cool products reviewed.
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#28
3rd January 2018, 10:50 PM
 Strato What Me Deluded? Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: The Bellarine, Geelong. Posts: 5,619
Re: Legalise Cannabis

Quote:
The Irreverent Mr Black said
Quote:
 Strato said . Joh will be turning over in his grave.
Good! Hook the old turd up to a turbine and hold a gay pride parade by his gravesite.
Turn his gravesite into a hooch patch.
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#29
3rd January 2018, 10:59 PM
 The Irreverent Mr Black Today is today. Tomorrow is uncertain. Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Toontown Posts: 5,261
Re: Legalise Cannabis

Quote:
pipbarber said
[
Quote:
 Aussie drinkers face paying more for booze under radical health plan DRINKERS would face significant price increases for beer and wine under a proposal to cut Australians’ alcohol *consumption.
My Naughty Ginger Beer peaks at somewhere like 11% by volume. If affordable wine is a thing of the past, I expect to be a serious brewer again.
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Truth will be spoken to Power.
Power will respond by narrowing its eyes,
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#30
3rd January 2018, 11:22 PM
 pipbarber AFA Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3,074
Re: Legalise Cannabis

Quote:
 The Irreverent Mr Black said My Naughty Ginger Beer peaks at somewhere like 11% by volume. If affordable wine is a thing of the past, I expect to be a serious brewer again.
I have the capacity to churn out 20 litres a week of drinkable 12-15% fruit based booze that works out at \$2-3 a litre. Are we seriously about to go back to poor people making their own grog? I do it for economic reasons but also for the craft. But hey, i’ll provide alcohol to those in want and can’t afford it just stick my middle finger up to our public health arswipes. Let’s get brewing, growing, manufacturing.
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