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  #121  
Old 13th January 2018, 01:14 PM
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its not a false authority - its relevant research and Farsi is the Persian language.

Ask a Jew or Christian if the 2nd Isaiah is his god - go right ahead asks as many as you want - they will all say yes of course.

Now ask the same of as many Zoroastrians as you like the same question about Yasna 44 of the Gathas

You will get the same answer because its the same god because -----But they do suggest relationship to the same tradition' ; 21 and, given the time and circumstances, this tradition would appear to be the teachings of Zoroaster.
Farsi historian or fishmonger?
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  #122  
Old 13th January 2018, 01:42 PM
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'this tradition would appear to be the teachings of Zoroaster.'


Appear. Do you know what this word means? It means looks like or seems like, not 'is'.
I just thought i'd point that out.
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  #123  
Old 13th January 2018, 02:12 PM
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knowledge is power said View Post
'this tradition would appear to be the teachings of Zoroaster.'


Appear. Do you know what this word means? It means looks like or seems like, not 'is'.
I just thought i'd point that out.
Ok let me try to explain for the umpteeth time.

It is well known and understood that Judaism and Christianity are close to and originated from Zoroastrianism. OK? Get that?

They do in fact worship the same God. This is widely known and understood.

Now when Boyce said

But they do suggest relationship to the same tradition' ; 21 and, given the time and circumstances, this tradition would appear to be the teachings of Zoroaster.

She is referring to the "Striking Parallels" between the 2nd Isaiah and Yasna 44 of the Gathas.

Get it? That is what she is talking about when she said those words - that only that and nothing but that.

With Cyrus again to quote Boyce, the scholars all agree that the 2nd Isaiah was only the "First Imprint of Zoroastrianism onto the Jews".

The second and much bigger
IMPRINT" came under Artaxerxes with Ezra and Nehemiah when the "Great Assembly" was held and all the Laws of Zoroastrianism were imposed on the Jews.

OK? We know this. This is not in dispute because it is known and understood.

So when she said: and here is the whole quote:

These parallels, it is pointed out, 'hardly suffice to suggest literary dependence of II Isaiah on Yasna 44. But they do suggest relationship to the same tradition'; and, given the time and circumstances, this tradition would appear to be the teachings of. Zoroaster. That Ahura-Mazda is the Creator of all things good is a major Zoroastrian doctrine, and 'Creator' is his most constant title, which on occasion replaces his proper name.

Here Boyce is only talking about "These parallels" and not anything else.

Here I quote from her book:

A History of Zoroastrianism: Volume II: Under the Achaemenians
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  #124  
Old 13th January 2018, 02:13 PM
Boris Boris is offline
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The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
Farsi historian or fishmonger?
Farsi means the Persian language - do you need medical attention because you speak gibberish.
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  #125  
Old 13th January 2018, 02:20 PM
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For the love of Pikkiwoki, will somebody explain in fluent Boris-ese that :
* "Similar" and "parallels" are not "same";
* Saying "widely understood" and "well known", without providing reliable sources or evidence, is meaningless. For instance, if I was to claim that Boris is apparently unable to exegete a reference text, without providing this thread and its predecessor as support, my claim would be empty;
* Asking a Farsi speaker about the history of his religion is like asking a French speaker for the names of those liberated from the Bastille on that particular 14th of July now named for the prison. You might be lucky, but the main chance is you'll get an unqualified answer, of no authority.
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  #126  
Old 13th January 2018, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Boris said View Post
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The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
Farsi historian or fishmonger?
Farsi means the Persian language - do you need medical attention because you speak gibberish.
I'm sorry to have to explain it to you in baby steps, Boris, but what I mean is that merely speaking Farsi does not immediately qualify a person as an expert.

A historian is going to give a more valuable answer than a fishmonger will.

Lay off the personal abuse, or you'll get the mistaken impression you are being bullied again.
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  #127  
Old 13th January 2018, 02:26 PM
Boris Boris is offline
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The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
For the love of Pikkiwoki, will somebody explain in fluent Boris-ese that :
* "Similar" and "parallels" are not "same";
* Saying "widely understood" and "well known", without providing reliable sources or evidence, is meaningless. For instance, if I was to claim that Boris is apparently unable to exegete a reference text, without providing this thread and its predecessor as support, my claim would be empty;
* Asking a Farsi speaker about the history of his religion is like asking a French speaker for the names of those liberated from the Bastille on that particular 14th of July now named for the prison. You might be lucky, but the main chance is you'll get an unqualified answer, of no authority.
So what is your definition of Parallels?

So when she said: and here is the whole quote:

These parallels, it is pointed out, 'hardly suffice to suggest literary dependence of II Isaiah on Yasna 44. But they do suggest relationship to the same tradition'; and, given the time and circumstances, this tradition would appear to be the teachings of. Zoroaster. That Ahura-Mazda is the Creator of all things good is a major Zoroastrian doctrine, and 'Creator' is his most constant title, which on occasion replaces his proper name.

Here Boyce is only talking about "These parallels" and not anything else.

Here I quote from her book:

A History of Zoroastrianism: Volume II: Under the Achaemenians

I spoke to Zoroastrians about their religion - got a problem with that?


Read this again - and slowly - try to understand it

But they do suggest relationship to the same tradition'; and, given the time and circumstances, this tradition would appear to be the teachings of. Zoroaster.

And please remember we know Judaism was influenced by Zoroastrianism for 500 years

Last edited by Boris; 13th January 2018 at 02:27 PM.
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  #128  
Old 13th January 2018, 02:28 PM
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There are SOME parallels, Boris.

Nobody apart from you has claimed that EVERYTHING is parallel.

There are genetic parallels between humans and chimpanzees. but humans are demonstrably not chimpanzees.
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  #129  
Old 13th January 2018, 02:30 PM
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As a small experiment, trying paraphrasing that passage from Ms Boyce literally, without adding any new ideas or playing wordgames.
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  #130  
Old 13th January 2018, 02:35 PM
Boris Boris is offline
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The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
There are SOME parallels, Boris.

Nobody apart from you has claimed that EVERYTHING is parallel.

There are genetic parallels between humans and chimpanzees. but humans are demonstrably not chimpanzees.
striking parallels

here is a quote from her book

The particular Gatha which provides striking parallels for Second Isaiah is Yasna 44, This is formed as a series of questions addressed to Ahura Mazda,

so what are you saying? Zoroastrianism has nothing to do with Judaism? Boyce is a complete idiot and her scholarship is worthless?

You are a genius - you can write books refuting everything she ever said because of your genius

Last edited by Boris; 13th January 2018 at 02:38 PM.
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