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  #351  
Old 1st June 2010, 06:50 PM
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mayor of simpleton mayor of simpleton is offline
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Talking Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

What a shame...

The ball flew over the fence... no more kickball!

Gee... I wanted to ask him a side question.

If he is so certain that all of his 'evidence' indicates that a 'creator - mono-theistic deity god' exists, how can he be sure that this god is his particular flavour of mono-theistic god?

What make him so sure that if there is a god, it has to be the christian biblical one? Why not another? All variations of mono-theistic supernatural gods would all be candidates to fill this position. How can he be so sure?

With one mono-theistic god being as absurd as the next, I find it vastly entertaining that each theist is so positive that their individual god is the only choosen one.

NO wonder they seem to be obcessed with fighting wars over 'who's god is the biggest'. Talk about your 'holy penis envy'!

Gee... and they accuse us (the godless) of being egotistical!

I'm quite sure this will not be the last time we get to play 'kickball'.

I know they mean well, but let's face it...

"There's a sucker born every minute" - P.T. Barnum (attributed)

Until next time...

Meow!

GREG
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"Atheism is the invention of the theist to place non-believers into context with their belief." - MOS
"Atheism is a unique "-ism": followers are not bound by a shared form of belief in, but rather a shared form of disbelief in." - MOS

Last edited by mayor of simpleton; 1st June 2010 at 06:52 PM.
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  #352  
Old 1st June 2010, 07:35 PM
riddlemethis riddlemethis is offline
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

Drat, I was so sure this would be the one who could fill me in on what the metric is that they use to determine so certainly the state of designedness of things, such that they can be so sure sexual reproduction and natural selection can't get the job done? Maybe the next one will have the answer I so crave?



Not!
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  #353  
Old 1st June 2010, 10:43 PM
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Zen Badger Zen Badger is offline
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

Sorry, been away on the motorbikes for a few days.

Quote:
Tsid502 said View Post
Ok. Please show it.
Firstly the only evidence for your god is the bible. And that has been shown repeatedly to only be the words of men.

Secondly the god of abraham is repeatedly described as jealous, petty,
genocidal, intolerant, petulant, inept(re the great flood, that's like blowing up your house to control termites) spiteful and childish. In fact all the things we find repugnent in humans.
And this is congruent with a universe spanning entity?
Not fucken likely!

Quote:
Tsid502 said View Post
Why ? In what sense does timescale matter? If God is the creater of time, is the length or timescale eventually a problem for him ?
Because if he does span the universe, his thought process' will be
slower than continental drift.(speed of light limit)


Quote:
Tsid502 said View Post
Most people do. I do, too. If God exists, what i strongly believe, i want to know him.
That's nice, but your god(yahweh) does not exist and is incompatible
with an ancient universe.
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  #354  
Old 1st June 2010, 11:47 PM
Jaar-Gilon Jaar-Gilon is offline
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

What I enjoyed most about following the thread was getting to listen to XTC thanks Mayor

I do agree though it is a good way to keep mentally sharp.

I just haven't got it in me these days to write big explanatory posts a) because I've become such a lazy arse in my recent years, b)someone who purports to be open minded and a "truth" seeker (as if any one is a "false" seeker!) should've already heard or seen the arguments against the stuff he put up so he is either a liar or biased, there are actually quite a few well thought out theories regarding the start of the universe and all of them, even the ones that have been shown to be pretty unlikely, are better than adding a godmalogical constant!
Roger Penrose has the one I like the best so far, you can find it if you search youtube for Roger Penrose -Aeons before the big bang.
and c) It's a waste of time because he is not willing to admit to his bias, I am happy to admit I am biased against the bible just as I am biased against lets say the geocentric solar system model or Lamarckian evolution.
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  #355  
Old 2nd June 2010, 12:53 AM
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mayor of simpleton mayor of simpleton is offline
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

Quote:
Jaar-Gilon said View Post
What I enjoyed most about following the thread was getting to listen to XTC thanks Mayor

I do agree though it is a good way to keep mentally sharp.

I just haven't got it in me these days to write big explanatory posts a) because I've become such a lazy arse in my recent years, b)someone who purports to be open minded and a "truth" seeker (as if any one is a "false" seeker!) should've already heard or seen the arguments against the stuff he put up so he is either a liar or biased, there are actually quite a few well thought out theories regarding the start of the universe and all of them, even the ones that have been shown to be pretty unlikely, are better than adding a godmalogical constant!
Roger Penrose has the one I like the best so far, you can find it if you search youtube for Roger Penrose -Aeons before the big bang.
and c) It's a waste of time because he is not willing to admit to his bias, I am happy to admit I am biased against the bible just as I am biased against lets say the geocentric solar system model or Lamarckian evolution.
No problem. I'm glad to see that XTC has not gone forgotten.

Keeping mentally sharpe is a constant task. It may suprise many here, but I rarely read (listen too in my case) 'atheist literature'. I find that my thoughts become a bit too 'inbred'. I do take care that I challenge my position with opposing ideas. I do not wish to run the risk of 'Incest of Intellect'.

Right now, believe it or not, I am chatting in my other forum with the only openly Jewish member of that philosophy forum. We are not debating god so much. Just society in general. He finds proving gods exist to be a silly folly. He values his faith and does not need to trivialize it with fact. Funny how we actually get along without any strife. He is more a 'humanist' than a Jew... his words. I can respect that.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I seek more 'co-existence' with believers than out right war. I cannot believe with them, but I can respect them. Just my style. What is missing is that this respect goes in both directions, but there is hope!

Keep it real man! Keep searching and thinking. Nothing is better than thinking.

Meow!

GREG
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"Atheism is the invention of the theist to place non-believers into context with their belief." - MOS
"Atheism is a unique "-ism": followers are not bound by a shared form of belief in, but rather a shared form of disbelief in." - MOS
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  #356  
Old 2nd June 2010, 01:37 AM
Jaar-Gilon Jaar-Gilon is offline
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

Quote:
mayor of simpleton said View Post
No problem. I'm glad to see that XTC has not gone forgotten.

Keeping mentally sharpe is a constant task. It may suprise many here, but I rarely read (listen too in my case) 'atheist literature'. I find that my thoughts become a bit too 'inbred'. I do take care that I challenge my position with opposing ideas. I do not wish to run the risk of 'Incest of Intellect'.

Right now, believe it or not, I am chatting in my other forum with the only openly Jewish member of that philosophy forum. We are not debating god so much. Just society in general. He finds proving gods exist to be a silly folly. He values his faith and does not need to trivialize it with fact. Funny how we actually get along without any strife. He is more a 'humanist' than a Jew... his words. I can respect that.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I seek more 'co-existence' with believers than out right war. I cannot believe with them, but I can respect them. Just my style. What is missing is that this respect goes in both directions, but there is hope!

Keep it real man! Keep searching and thinking. Nothing is better than thinking.

Meow!

GREG
A couple of things I agree with Greg, I don't really read any atheist literature either. I actually find most of it a bit boring, I like reading science books and watching docos, particularly physics and geology.

I personally don't think you're wrong either about seeking co-existence, I think people are allowed to believe what they like. That doesn't mean that you can't point out where you think they may be in error.

Quote:
He values his faith and does not need to trivialize it with fact.
This is a great position, and what was wrong about Tsid's approach. I don't have a problem when they admit that the extra step that Tsid was willing to take is faith. The difference, I think, with us is that although I like Penroses hypothesis (It is even probably testable) I don't at this point in time believe it's true and I certainly wouldn't base any values or decisions in my life on it that's for sure.
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  #357  
Old 2nd June 2010, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ? A NEW APPROACH. part 3

Quote:
Tsid502 said View Post
http://www.godsci.com/gs/new/finetuning.html

Lee Smolin (a world-class physicist and a leader in quantum gravity) estimates that if the physical constants of the universe were chosen randomly, the epistemic-probability of ending up with a world with carbon chemistry is less than one part in 10^220.
This epistemic-probability is one part in: 10000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 0.
Epistemic Probability: 0.0000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 1
You can add another few 0's to that, it doesn't matter. It happened. So what does the number have to do with anything? It's like a gambler who bets odds, for the 10th time thinking that the next role couldn't be wrong again, as the only possibility for that happening would be 1 in 1024 that you'd be wrong again.

Alas. The truth is, the possibility for each throw is still only 1/2.

Well, if you don't believe me, you should try betting on that principle.

Like wise, the odds that you mention, only applies, if we are refering to the creation of another world/universe/dimension, or whatever it is.
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  #358  
Old 2nd June 2010, 04:17 PM
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Ter Ter is offline
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

@Tsid502 too bad you're gone. You haven't even replied me, on your OP.

Quote:
Ter said View Post
Your deduction is flawed.
You made alot of assumptions without realising it.


I've a better way of putting this. If nothing exist, then how can things come into existence.


The remainder is when you started writing your own script, and irrelevant to the previous deduction.

Perhaps the eternal something has no beginning, but how do you know it has no end? How do you know, it is something that has needs? How do you know it can meet this needs? How do you know it can do anything that needs to be done? How do you know it will always be superior than anything it produces?


How do you know, it is not a machine? Not programmed outside of itself? Surely, but pointless. How do you know it won't produce out of necessity? As you said earlier, there are no needs it cannot meet. which hints that it does have needs.

How do you know since it has no needs, it must have intention in producing something else?

If you don't know my previous question, how do you know it must have will, and it is personal?

How do you know if it is personal, it has to have reason to create?

And bonus question for hidden answer: How do you know that that reason is love for mankind?
:P I'm always late.
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  #359  
Old 2nd June 2010, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

Quote:
Ter said View Post
:P I'm always late.
It's okay, the cleaners haven't gone home yet (that's us), but we'll be locking the door shortly so make sure you don't get locked in!
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  #360  
Old 2nd June 2010, 05:15 PM
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Default Re: how can we best explain our existence ?

I'm done. Just wanted to get a few free shots before it was closed. :P
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