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  #11  
Old 29th May 2017, 12:37 AM
LadyDay LadyDay is offline
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Default Re: How 'scandalous' is drugs?

I don't do any illicit recreational drugs and very much think it's a bad idea to put your body through something dangerous, even more so if it has a high potential for being addictive. That being said, I do drink alcohol, so I am aware that it is possible to use substances with some addictive potential in moderation.
But I also know how drugs can screw up people. My aunt died from a Heroine overdose, after long term addiction. With homelessness, prostitution, HIV and the whole shebang as a result of the addiction. So I'm dead scared of drugs. Also the party drugs.
However, I do believe that the way to protect people from drugs is education on how they work and what they can do. Not campaigns to scare people, no fear mongering, but rational, non-biased education. I don't think strict legislation has much of the desired effect. That being said, I don't know what would be the best way to handle drugs. Maybe make it illegal to sell them, but not to possess or take them. I don't know. I imagine negative consequences of selling hard drugs in your local shops, like we do with tobacco, alcohol and caffeine. But I might be wrong.
I'm a big proponent of making Cannabis products legal, both for medical and recreational use, including selling it in the same fashion as we do tobacco. There is no reason why tobacco should be legal, but pot not.
Anyway. Complicated question. I'm very much not a fan of drugs, but I'm also not a fan of legislating what people should or should not do to their own bodies. As long as people know what they do to themselves, and are of an age where they are capable of understanding the consequences of their actions (teenagers think they are immortal, they are not adults and they are incapable of evaluating the long term consequences).
I don't think doing drugs is immoral. I do think it's immoral to try to persuade others to do them or tell others that it's fine and safe where it's not. Just like I believe it's immoral to tell the uninformed that smoking tobacco or drinking alcohol is completely safe and without consequences (though surely almost all people are informed of those risks by now).

Okay, I'm done now

Last edited by LadyDay; 29th May 2017 at 12:41 AM.
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  #12  
Old 29th May 2017, 12:09 PM
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Stub King Stub King is offline
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Default Re: How 'scandalous' is drugs?

drugs are neither immoral nor wrong. they are chemical compounds. the mere act of using a drug should not be any more immoral/wrong than eating mayo or drinking cider. what you do under the influence of drugs may be immoral/wrong as are things you do when not under the influence.

the 'Corby affair' is nothing more than cheap journalism and sensationalism because apparently you can make a lot of money by satisfying the public's fetish for voyeurism. it has nothing to do with drugs, their effects on society, drug related policy or morality.

sadly the public discourse over this rather non trivial topic is fraught with fear mongering, 19th century puritan conservatism, ignorance, politicking, hypocrisy and propaganda, rather than rational, evidence based debate.

I enjoy alcohol ... a lot. or rather, I enjoy alcoholic drinks. but tbh, I enjoy the taste much more than the feeling of intoxication (which nowadays is mild anyway). yet the fact that alcohol and tobacco, the two most harmful drugs on the planet, are legal and widely available but THC is not, boggles the mind sometimes.
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  #13  
Old 29th May 2017, 12:59 PM
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Darwinsbulldog Darwinsbulldog is offline
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Default Re: How 'scandalous' is drugs?

Addictive and/or mind altering drugs place a burden on the health system. So any drug abuse issue has both personal repercussions and effects on society.

It is perfectly true that many people can "handle" recreational drugs, but many cannot.

I am loath to restrict freedoms unless there is good reason to do so. The law must treat everyone equally, so that doesn't lend itself to liberal recreational drug laws.

I enjoy a drink, but if I never have another, I would not miss it. On the other hand, my weakness is nicotine. Other people have that reversed. I have taken pot and not been addicted to it, but have not tried anything harder. First because I see no reason to, and second if the addiction is anything like nicotine for me, and would end up in a world of pain.

Because of this wide range of biological/medical responses to drugs, there are always going to be people who disagree on drug regulation and enforcement. Some will find the laws to liberal, and others, not restrictive enough.
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  #14  
Old 29th May 2017, 01:12 PM
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Default Re: How 'scandalous' is drugs?

Would it be fair to say that any approach which appeals initially to rigour and a sense of propriety, misses out on the cause and main business of drugs, which is people.

Concentrating on harm minimisation and limiting harmful effects on users, and those in contact with them, would seem a more reasonable priority than "scandal" and finger-wagging at How Wrong These People Are.

* I made that phrase red, because it covers more people than may be apparent on initial reading.
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  #15  
Old 29th May 2017, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: How 'scandalous' is drugs?

Quote:
Stub King said View Post

the 'Corby affair' is nothing more than cheap journalism and sensationalism because apparently you can make a lot of money by satisfying the public's fetish for voyeurism. it has nothing to do with drugs, their effects on society, drug related policy or morality.
Just on the corby issue, I think the media read the corby gossip/story wrong. No one gives a shit. I base this on my observation of news.com.au. This is a click generated site. The more clicks a story gets the higher up on the list of 'news' it remains. Sometimes, a paragraph or two will be added on top of the old story with a new headline. Sometimes, two different articles on the same story will appear, obviously a lot of clicks on the original. Anyway, 2 days ago, 4 of the top 5 articles were Corby related. Today, not a single article in the top 10. No one gives a shit. There is no story here. No one cares. What a lot of money the media just spent on nothing.
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  #16  
Old 30th May 2017, 02:46 AM
LadyDay LadyDay is offline
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Default Re: How 'scandalous' is drugs?

Quote:
Darwinsbulldog said View Post
Addictive and/or mind altering drugs place a burden on the health system. So any drug abuse issue has both personal repercussions and effects on society.
...
They do. But so does smoking, driving, drinking, eating unhealthily, doing sports where you might break something, sharp kitchen objects, Australias ridiculous wildlife that all want to kill you and so on. You can't really ban all things that can be harmful to people and therefor cost the health care system money. And f.ex. tobacco causes way more damage than f.ex. LSD (which has very low addictive potential and very few harmful side effects).
We all pay into the health care system, and therefor we all have the right to treatment, even when our medical issue is caused by something that could have been avoided. We can't have the state governing everything we do in our own lives.

(PS: I don't know anything about the Australian health care system, but I assume you guys have free health care)
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  #17  
Old 30th May 2017, 09:10 AM
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THWOTH THWOTH is offline
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Default Re: How 'scandalous' is drugs?

Quote:
Azurisan21 said View Post
What's your viewpoint on drugs? Are drugs immoral and wrong?
My tuppence worth...

Current (primarily political) narratives make an arbitrary distinction between 'drugs' and other intoxicants. 'Drugs' are illegal, therefore wrong. Intoxicants like alcohol are legal, and therefore not wrong because they're not 'drugs'. This is misleading and fundamentally misinforms the public debate on drugs policy (which by my lights should be re-branded 'intoxicant policy').

If we're going to be honest (imo) and just talk about 'intoxicants' (which for the sake of brevity I'll define as being chemical compounds with a psycho-active effect on the user) then the public debate falls into two areas: 1. the morality or social acceptance of intoxicant use in general, and 2. the relative harm of particular intoxicant use. No further distinctions are necessary, or indeed, helpful.

For example, alcohol and cocaine are both powerful and highly addictive intoxicants. Sanctioning one while proscribing the other is misleading and detrimental to a rational appraisal of public policy becasue, amongst other things, ti takes no account of either the relative harms of different intoxicants and/or the problematic use of legal compounds or the non-problematic use of illegal ones.

As I said, just my tuppence worth.
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Last edited by THWOTH; 30th May 2017 at 09:13 AM. Reason: clarity
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  #18  
Old 30th May 2017, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: How 'scandalous' is drugs?

They can do all kinds of really interesting things with synthetic cannabinoids these days. Tweak them to eradicate certain affects like paranoia or carefully control the strength and duration of doses, the quality of the high etc. Not that i'd know, you understand, but it seems better to me than getting smashed at a nightclub or pub and brawling in the street. Better also than buying some 10th generation hybridised hydroponic skunk from the street or online that knocks your brains out and leaves you feeling insane for 3 days. (or so i hear) Seems to me we could generate a healthy flow of tax revenue with a safe synthetic compound or a clinically analyzed organic product that you could legally buy. What sort of a name is 'Schepelle' anyway? Is it German?
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  #19  
Old 30th May 2017, 09:23 PM
Wrenn Wrenn is offline
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Default Re: How 'scandalous' is drugs?

Quote:
Azurisan21 said View Post
What's your viewpoint on drugs? Are drugs immoral and wrong?
If I were the King of Australia I would:

- Decriminalize all drugs.
- Release from prison and pardon all drug offenders.
- Legalize the least harmful drugs (cannibis, mushrooms, LSD etc)
- Tax drugs and use the money to:
- Provide assistance and education for those requiring rehabilitation.
- Provide incentives to companies to create synthetic drugs that replicate the effects of the dangerous drugs, but without or with reduced side effects.
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