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  #31  
Old 3rd May 2017, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

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wadaye said View Post
Yes it kind of goes like, 'I believe in Jesus'; 'Oh is that right? Well I don't believe in Jesus'. 'Oh is that so? Well I still do'. 'Well I still don't'. and so on.

[am i getting old? my eyes can no longer shift from computer to book or vice versa late at night.]

Edit: I found the time to step out of the paradigm
Am i wrong to note that that is the second time recently you have mentioned your eyesight. Get them checked, mate.
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  #32  
Old 4th May 2017, 11:50 PM
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

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If Jesus existed - as in, if there was a Yeshua around whom all the Christian bullshit accreted - then he was just as fucking human as the rest of us.

Your question makes no fucking sense, given the proclaimed intended audience.
Jesus, lighten up GM! This is a forum where religion and science get discussed isn't it? I'm entitled to post a thread asking a relevant question that was only a thought experiment anyhow. I was only trying to provoke some discussion and I think it ended up with some very interesting conversation with the members, which was my intention.

Sorry if it annoyed you mate, but I'm not doing it for any imagined agenda.
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  #33  
Old 5th May 2017, 02:47 AM
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

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Goldenmane said View Post
If Jesus existed - as in, if there was a Yeshua around whom all the Christian bullshit accreted - then he was just as fucking human as the rest of us.

Your question makes no fucking sense, given the proclaimed intended audience.
Jesus, lighten up GM! This is a forum where religion and science get discussed isn't it? I'm entitled to post a thread asking a relevant question that was only a thought experiment anyhow. I was only trying to provoke some discussion and I think it ended up with some very interesting conversation with the members, which was my intention.

Sorry if it annoyed you mate, but I'm not doing it for any imagined agenda.
I said the same thing as GM did, but called the human dad a stealthy rooter.

Presuming divinity *Is* a pretty pointless thought experiment for an atheist forum.
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  #34  
Old 5th May 2017, 07:29 AM
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

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I said the same thing as GM did, but called the human dad a stealthy rooter.

Presuming divinity *Is* a pretty pointless thought experiment for an atheist forum.
Correct, but who said there was any point? It was just for fun. I enjoyed your comment about the stealth rooter btw. I have found out since posting that a lot of Christian fundies don't need to make up any Y chromosome as their theology has plenty of ready made bullshit excuses.
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  #35  
Old 5th May 2017, 07:53 AM
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

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I said the same thing as GM did, but called the human dad a stealthy rooter.

Presuming divinity *Is* a pretty pointless thought experiment for an atheist forum.
Correct, but who said there was any point? It was just for fun. I enjoyed your comment about the stealth rooter btw. I have found out since posting that a lot of Christian fundies don't need to make up any Y chromosome as their theology has plenty of ready made bullshit excuses.
You'd have loved my ministry college principal. He said the non-X was also to prove the virgin birth was a miracle, not parthenogenesis.
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  #36  
Old 5th May 2017, 10:45 AM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

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A thought experiment question for the science guys and gals here:

Was Jesus (if he existed as a human ) 98.8% chimpanzee? Or would he be less than that because of the missing Y chromosome that wasn't delivered by God according to the immaculate conception story? The easy out for Christians would be that God miraculously zapped one into existence, but an artificial one would not make Jesus a human to my understanding as the Y chromosome needs genetic data.

I know that human beings do share 98.8% of their DNA with chimpanzees but does that mean we are no more 98.8% chimp anymore than the fact that we share around half our DNA with bananas means we are half banana?

Or are we actually 98.8% chimps because of the similar make up?
Sorry but its like asking if we are actually 12.5% our cousin because that is the degree of relatedness (intraspecies). The answer of course is that i am not my cousin and she is not me. Genwtics is far more interesting than a debating point with fundamentalist Christians.
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  #37  
Old 5th May 2017, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

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Sorry but its like asking if we are actually 12.5% our cousin because that is the degree of relatedness (intraspecies). The answer of course is that i am not my cousin and she is not me. Genwtics is far more interesting than a debating point with fundamentalist Christians.
It can get a bit fuzzy. Would it be more proper to say that we are 98.8% similar to chimps? How much are we ape Vs human? Of course, humans are primates, but the other primates that we most look like are the chimpanzee and bonobo apes.

I really don't know for sure, that's one of the reasons why I posted this in the ask an atheist section. Labeling Jesus as an ape certainly would irritate most Christians (whom I'm sure would consider him "above" all that), but if they consider he was a human, that would be part of the territory. Heck, we all get itchy armpits every now and again don't we? Why not do a little mocking by evolution?

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  #38  
Old 5th May 2017, 09:52 PM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

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Sorry but its like asking if we are actually 12.5% our cousin because that is the degree of relatedness (intraspecies). The answer of course is that i am not my cousin and she is not me. Genwtics is far more interesting than a debating point with fundamentalist Christians.
It can get a bit fuzzy. Would it be more proper to say that we are 98.8% similar to chimps? How much are we ape Vs human? Of course, humans are primates, but the other primates that we most look like are the chimpanzee and bonobo apes.

I really don't know for sure, that's one of the reasons why I posted this in the ask an atheist section. Labeling Jesus as an ape certainly would irritate most Christians (whom I'm sure would consider him "above" all that), but if they consider he was a human, that would be part of the territory. Heck, we all get itchy armpits every now and again don't we? Why not do a little mocking by evolution?

I'm an ape and you are too, and your religious co-conversationalists, even if they don't accept it. That's because without humans the category 'apes' loses its cladistic monophyletic nature, no longer including ancestors and all descendants, and hence loses any meaning other than human prejudice. Such a category 'apes' excluding humans becomes paraphyletic and no longer cladistic in nature, and hence loses any explanatory power. Of course creationists may posit that the explanation is that God made humans and hence there is no need for apes in the place of our ancestry and descent and present.

I think what you might be trying to get at is talking sense to the middle of the road believer who still accepts evolution (except in the case of Jesus) rather than the creationist anti-evolution spruiker. But if you're going to talk
cladistics to such people then you really ought to do a little research on the subject!

Edit: Having now preached about the subject, it turns out that common usage is full of paraphyletic groups, such as fish (which ought to include humans), monkeys (which ought to include humans), and so on. Nonetheless humans and other apes are not so different as to justify an exclusion of humans from the group 'apes' even if paraphyletic groups are still often accepted as meriting some form of retention as categories.
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Last edited by wadaye; 5th May 2017 at 10:21 PM.
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  #39  
Old 6th May 2017, 08:38 AM
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Default Re: Was Jesus 98.8% Chimp?

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wadaye said View Post

I think what you might be trying to get at is talking sense to the middle of the road believer who still accepts evolution (except in the case of Jesus) rather than the creationist anti-evolution spruiker. But if you're going to talk cladistics to such people then you really ought to do a little research on the subject!
Thanks Wadaye. Yes, that is the case. I haven't studied taxonomy and haven't even heard of those terms before, so I'll do some research before talking about something I know little about.

Cheers to yourself and the other members here that have helped me understand this topic better.
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