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Old 11th November 2015, 04:58 PM
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Darwinsbulldog Darwinsbulldog is offline
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Default Re: Rebellion

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borealis said View Post
It's been years since I engaged at CF, though I spent several years there through various restructurings, purges, mass deletions, and owners.

At one point there were two creation and evolution forums, one in which atheists were permitted and one in which only Christians could debate. Both were interesting to read, since there are plenty Christians who accept evolution entirely. There was, oddly, not much member crossover between the two subforums.

yes, it is mostly Americans and some of the creationists are very nasty, mostly because the mods are lax about letting them get away with it while coming down hard on atheists and even theistic evolutionists - or that's how it was when I was around.
See my bold, and they are wrong to do so. Evolution is a necessary and sufficient cause for the soul, the catch is that although it is an emergent property of the body, it can't emerge from the body. So the belief in an immortal or transferable soul is totally at odds with biology.
Things like identity, personality, intelligence our hopes, fears, hates and loves, our appreciation of beauty, etc is all based on our biology and culture and life experiences.
So they "accept" evolution without realizing, or giving any weight to, any such incompatibility with their belief in immortal souls.

"Regular" creationists will say such things explicitly, they still adhere to vitalism. They are at least consistent in their POV, which is 'goddidit" ---ALL the way down.
The theistic evolutionist is still a vitalist, although they are less obvious about it, choosing to accept evolution for the creation of the human "meat", but are vitalistic in terms of the soul. If a soul can exist outside the body, then any support for the soul is unnecessary when it does inhabit a body. An obvious contradiction.
Our brains use a great deal of energy. Energy we need to think, to hope to dream, to be aware of ourselves and our environment. We know what is us and what is not-us by sense organs and proprio -receptors and shit sending info to the brain, and the brain processing it to tell us where are body parts are. It might do it imperfectly, like when a person who has a leg amputated, and can yet still feel their limb.
Our bodies even have to lie to us to give us, in our multi-cellular bodies, a sense of "wholeness" ,of being one, rather than many.
We can test this when we put our finger to our nose. The nose sensation should arrive first, before the finger signal, but we don't perceive it that way. If we did, we would be uncoordinated. And that would have consequences for survival and mating.
In short, there is no evidence, in the meat or the "soul" for anything other than natural cause. So such dualism, as seen in the theistic evolutionist, is untenable.
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  #12  
Old 11th November 2015, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: Rebellion

Christians implicitly endorse the notion of the soul but they swerve from ever attempting to define the entity. It is understood as one's intrinsic personhood which survives your death and dissolution. It is the 'self,' which experience you have unpacked a little. The soul is one's consciousness and its character is shaped by moral choices. It is inherently sinful until one consecrates the soul/self and then allows the Holy Spirit to sanctify the thoughts and intents of the heart. So puerile.

Maybe we should start a thread on the soul. Members would have something to say on this idea. There is neuroscience, evolution and the highly social species we are to draw upon. Anthropology. I ponder the origin of the idea deep in our species' history. Surely the neanderthals had the concept. It seems it would be pretty natural for the idea to originate and go viral as a meme for primitive people.

Dan Dennett wrote Consciousness Explained wherein he debunks the dualist Cartesian theatre, the homunculus. The title is audacious. The book is a classic. He is termed a neo Darwinian philosopher.
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Old 11th November 2015, 09:09 PM
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Default Re: Rebellion

Charismatics talk about the spirit as though it's vaguely implied there is a separate self again to the soul self. So you have the spirit, the soul and the body, the tripartite view.

These claims to spiritual entities or existents are conveniently exempted from the criterion of empiricism and falsifiability, which all other claims to existence are subject to.
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