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  #1  
Old 26th July 2013, 08:17 PM
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Default Words of Wisdom

To those of you who may peruse these pages in search of confirmation that you're religious doubts have validity. I say welcome!

As a result of religious indoctrination and/or religious influence in the secular sphere, atheism is a goal that can sometimes take a considerable time to achieve.

Atheism is not a new concept. Freethinkers have existed through the ages but in former times they often paid for their independence with their lives.

Still men and women have continued to fight for their freedom and refuse to be slaves to superstition and religious exploitation.

May I once again welcome you to a world of intellectual freedom and close by quoting the words of Robert G. Ingersoll (11 August 1833 – 21 July 1899)

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The doubter, the investigator, the infidel, have been the saviors of liberty. The truth is beginning to be realized, and the truly intellectual are honoring the brave thinker of the past. But the church is as unforgiving as ever, and still wonders why any infidel should be wicked enough to attempt to destroy her power. I will tell the church why I hate it.

You have imprisoned the human mind; you have been the enemy of liberty; you have burned us at the stake, roasted us before slow fires, torn our flesh with irons; you have covered us with chains, treated us as outcasts; you have filled the world With fear; you have taken our wives and children from our arms; you have confiscated our property; you have denied us the right to testify in courts of justice; you have branded us with infamy; you have torn out our tongues; you have refused us burial. In the name of your religion you have robbed us of every right; and after having inflicted upon us every evil that can be inflicted in this world, you have fallen upon your knees, and with clasped hands implored your God to finish the holy work in hell.

Can you wonder that we hate your doctrines; that we despise your creeds; that we feel proud to know that we are beyond your power; that we are free in spite of you; that we can express our honest thought, and that the whole world is gradually rising into the blessed light?
Can you wonder that we point with pride to the fact that infidelity has ever been found battling for the rights of man, for the liberty of conscience, and for the happiness of all?
Can you wonder that we are proud to know that we have always been disciples of reason and soldiers of freedom; that we have denounced tyranny and superstition, and have kept our hands unstained with human blood?

Last edited by Phroso; 26th July 2013 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 27th July 2013, 05:27 PM
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Default Re: Words of Wisdom

Quote:
Phroso said View Post
To those of you who may peruse these pages in search of confirmation that you're religious doubts have validity. I say welcome!

As a result of religious indoctrination and/or religious influence in the secular sphere, atheism is a goal that can sometimes take a considerable time to achieve.

Atheism is not a new concept. Freethinkers have existed through the ages but in former times they often paid for their independence with their lives.

Still men and women have continued to fight for their freedom and refuse to be slaves to superstition and religious exploitation.

May I once again welcome you to a world of intellectual freedom and close by quoting the words of Robert G. Ingersoll (11 August 1833 21 July 1899)
Words of wisdom indeed and a quote well worth quoting. Ingersoll must have been something of a lone wolf in the wilderness when he penned these words. I wonder if they called him a new age atheist?
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Old 27th July 2013, 08:58 PM
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@ Sten
If you want to know more about Robert Ingersoll
try this I highly recommend it and other works by Susan Jacoby about RGI.
A free source of his writing and speeches can be found at Gutenberg Project
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Old 27th July 2013, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: Words of Wisdom

Thanks AUSloth, good thread and good references.
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Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.
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Old 28th July 2013, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: Words of Wisdom

Yes thanks AUSloth, alerting me to Robert G. Ingersoll.

Good OP Phroso.

Last night I trawled through Charles Haddon Spurgeon on evangelism, linked by rayne on 'Is There An Atheist In Your Neighbourhood?' Amusing thread.

http://www.rapturenotes.com/soul-winning.html

A friend, now acquaintance on Facebook, through the Hair Oz/NZ network I joined, is a lecturer/ 'academic' in some college/s teaching Theology and 'The Life And Thought Of John Wesley' to Salvation Army students etc. Ordained Anglican also. He's ever there on Facebook plugging Wesleyan conventions in America where they have Wesleyan 'universities,' the Salvos activities on Manus Island (no doubt in competition with Amnesty International) or latest books out on the Holiness tradition, or the Sermons of John Wesley and stuff. I've contended with him you bet, like a gadfly.

This oratorical tradition goes back a way. George Whitefield got John Wesley into open air evangelism. Celibate and wowser perfectionist Wesley traveled 250,000 miles on horseback through England's C18th mud, also Wales, Ireland, Scotland. Interestingly didn't look up David Hume. Asexual brother Charles Wesley wrote hundreds of endless hymns. Wesley sent Francis Asbury to America, who out-rode Wesley himself, preaching. Then the hardy, zealous Methodist Circuit Riders in the Wild West, all over with huge circuits, like Indiana. Then Jonathan Edwards, Charles H. Spurgeon, Gharles G. Finney many others. The American 'Great Awakenings,' tent revival meetings went on for maybe weeks. Then Billy Graham crusades. His disciple, Arthur Blessitt, who got George Bush focussed.

Robert G. Ingersoll was the greatest orator in that tradition, and at last safe to listen to.
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Last edited by Strato; 28th July 2013 at 05:03 PM. Reason: Atheism
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Old 28th July 2013, 05:39 PM
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Default Re: Words of Wisdom

My apology Phroso,

You introduced Robert Ingersoll. AUSloth linked his work. Thanks comrades.
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Old 28th July 2013, 06:58 PM
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AUSloth said View Post
@ Sten
If you want to know more about Robert Ingersoll
try this I highly recommend it and other works by Susan Jacoby about RGI.
A free source of his writing and speeches can be found at Gutenberg Project
Thanks for the links AUSloth I am embarrassed to admit to having little knowledge of this guy until now. He now gets my vote for the next messiah.
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Old 28th July 2013, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Sten said View Post
Thanks for the links AUSloth I am embarrassed to admit to having little knowledge of this guy until now. He now gets my vote for the next messiah.
Heh! There are a few that had a good first run that should be eligible for a second coming, unfortunately the universe just doesn't seem to cooperate
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Old 29th July 2013, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: Words of Wisdom

Quote:
Strato said View Post
My apology Phroso,

You introduced Robert Ingersoll. AUSloth linked his work. Thanks comrades.
Hi Strato!

If you liked Ingersoll, you will probably also enjoy the writings of Joseph Lewis 1889 1968.

See: Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_L._Lewis

It was probably Joseph Lewis who first gave me the confidence to confront the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church and publicly express my "agnosticism" when I was about eighteen. (I wasn't quite ready to take the ultimate step of identifying myself as an atheist. <grin>)

If you haven't yet encountered Joseph Lewis, might I suggest you first take a look at his "Atheist Manifesto".

See: http://tinyurl.com/mzozxh5
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Old 29th July 2013, 01:27 PM
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AUSloth said View Post
Heh! There are a few that had a good first run that should be eligible for a second coming, unfortunately the universe just doesn't seem to cooperate
The universe did cooperate to bring back Khayyam:

-------------

As Old Khayyam I saw a World bemused
By This and That, as mentally I cruised
Through Seas of Paradoxical Ideas
With Nebulous Philosophy suffused

I sipped my Wine and said my little Say
I laughed and sighed and had my little Day
And, when my Vital Cells had served their Term.
Like Pharaoh proud and Jamshyd, went my Way.

The Ganglions that formed my Ego broke
Into Disintegration, then awoke
Revitalised, their countless Units then
Scattered amongst the Brains of Other Folk.

It seemed to me that this Coincidence:
That these dull microscopic Cells of Sense,
Could in their Trillions re-unite again:
Was contrary to all Intelligence.

But lo, the Cosmic Chemist, witless, blind,
With vagrant, fumbling Fingers, chanced to find
The Combination of my Ego that
Its empty Husk had long ago resigned.

So I, a New Khayyam, am come again
Back to the Caravanserai of Men,
Yet I am Old, for one must pass the Test
Of Years to bring All Things within his ken.

------------

This is an extract from the "New Rubaiyat - Omar Khayyam Reincarnated" by Ame Perdue where the author explains his reincarnation as being the "by chance" re-assembly of the cells that comprised the brain of the original Omar. It is a delightful work featuring many anti religious verses.
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