What's the beef between Sam Harris & PZ Myers?

[xanthopan]

also stardust, thanx for your thoughts and the link to the original article...

http://www.alternet.org/belief/5-mos...2C1&paging=off

[wearestardust]

Originally Posted by xanthopan

also stardust, thanx for your thoughts and the link to the original article...

http://www.alternet.org/belief/5-mos...2C1&paging=off

btw I did provide the link, though it may be a bit buries. Because I'ma appalled by the article I disabled the link so that it needs to be cut and pasted into the URL bar so that they don't get a hit from this forum.

(the codes to do this are and ).

[wearestardust]

Originally Posted by xanthopan

@wearestardust, I think it's ok to be one-eyed ...

I agree, if we can swap "one-eyed" with something like "possessed of very firm views"

Hirsi Ali is certainly not in love with Islam. On the other hand, she stands up for the right of Muslims to practice their faith and, IIRC, opposes banning of burqa-wearing.

[Goldenmane]

Continues:
freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/08/08/addressing-sam-harris/

[Fearless]

Would be encouraging if they just engaged each other directly and respectfully.

Tit for tat on the Internet doesn't usually win much praise.

[AustralAlien]

They just sound to me like two people having a spat, except they are having this spat in front of thousands of people over the internet.

[xanthopan]

Thanx goldenmane, i reckon that's a pretty good response from PZ. The only thing I disagree with him on is that Harris's profiling stance is racist. I don't think Harris is a racist guy, he just wants to target the most likely suspects. But, I think PZ is correct, that profiling could easily create new loopholes.

I really love the fact that these guys are arguing on the finer points of ethics - this is incredibly important stuff, and the discussion is not being marred by faith or tradition.

Perhaps this particular discussion is being tainted by rudeness. I think the tone of the conversation is impacting the content, cause neither party looks willing to give ground, even in the face of logic.

Will these two put away the knives and agree to a civil discussion on the topics of torture and profiling?

[Worldslaziestbusker]

Originally Posted by AustralAlien

They just sound to me like two people having a spat, except they are having this spat in front of thousands of people over the internet.

I agree. A lot of the arguments on this forum would look similar if played out to similarly large readerships. It's just a people thing.

@ Xanthopan: I disagree and think Harris' position on profiling is racist and misguided. Here's a previous local discussion on the matter.

[wearestardust]

Originally Posted by Worldslaziestbusker

I agree. A lot of the arguments on this forum would look similar if played out to similarly large readerships. It's just a people thing.

I had been reflecting on the matter of on-casting of first stones.

[xanthopan]

Originally Posted by Worldslaziestbusker

A lot of the arguments on this forum would look similar if played out to similarly large readerships. It's just a people thing.

True. Is the wow factor of this spat just that we expect these high profile authors/intellectuals to be a little more eloquent? Usually, when you see these guys in an interview, discussion or lecture, their ability to articulate is phenomenal compared with your typical grassroots philosophical d&m down at the local.

As for racism... I don't think it's racist to consider the possibility of physical profiling for Muslim terrorists. I don't think profiling is necessarily effective, but I don't think it would be immoral to implement it if it was effective.

Surely it's just a possible method of filtering. Racist? I don't think so. Effective? Probably not, due to the creation of new loopholes that PZ points out. Ie. says terrorist: "stick a bomb in the old innocent white couple's bag, and they'll sail through security, pat on the back, job done."

In fact, strapping bombs to women is becoming more popular the world over, surely due to profiling yeah?

Completely to open to changing my mind, or even admitting my comments are racist, but at this point, I just don't see it - although I'm about as non-Arab as you can get, so of course I could be very biased here!