Polygamy / Polyamory, thoughts?

[riddlemethis]

Originally Posted by rayne

Several of my poly friends have poly family units that include children. There's no legal recognition (a legal overhaul to include poly relationships and families would be complex) but they've worked out what works best for them. Much like if a monogamous couple splits, the children still see all parties (if desired), if someone leaves a poly relationship (or one person within the poly relationship) the kids can still see them (again if desired) Perhaps not as the biological mum or dad but as the person who helped parent/raise the kid(s) like an unofficial step parent.

I'm tipping this utopian ideal of how it'd work, wouldn't, in the case of non-biologically related adults. Even grandparents don't have those sorts of 'rights' in a family in the case of relationship breakdown, neither legally or from a purely logistical standpoint. And how many people get to come & go in this capacity from a child's life? It's chaotic.

[rayne]

Nobody ever said polymoury was perfect and neither are some monogamous relationships. As previously stated polymoury makes things more complex (especially legally) but monogamous couples in a messy divorces and custody battles are just as choatic. Some poly relationships will be great, some won't. It isn't the type of relationship but the people in it that makes one work. The way things are handled after a person splits from the relationship in regards to any children (or any other matter such as material items, bank accounts etc) is a matter between the people in the relationship to decide the best course of action (whether that be taking matters to court or worked out on their own).

[riddlemethis]

I'm not even talking about "perfect", whatever that is, I'm talking about parsimonious. Family dynamism is hard enough without layers of complexity added purely for the sake of satisfying a very small (in the scheme of things) aspect of practical life. I'd hazard that there's a modicum of logistical rationalism that went into the evolution of an essentially exclusive-family model of society (I won't say strictly monogamous b/c ppl fuck around all the time). Like democracy, it's the best of a bad bunch of options for most people I reckon. That's not to say I think other options ought be prohibited of course. I don't care how thin others want to divy up their emotional lives.

ETA: it's the last bit in your post immediately above that people are deplorably bad at though & the reason we need legislation around such things - adult relationships when they dissolve frequently do so into a morass of adults serving their own needs & using children as emotional pawns. The more adults involved the worse the potential mess?

[rayne]

Choas in its many forms aside, there's still no reason that poly relationships shouldn't be given equal status with other relationships. Yes messy divorces can harm children but drawing a line between what type of relationship is acceptable and what isn't won't stop the issue from happening because it already happens in relationships that have legal recognition.

I'm not certain what your stance of poly and other non mongamous relationships are but best take a look at any arguements beforehand to ensure they aren't parroting the same arguements that desperate fundamentalist christians throw around in an attempt to deny equality to everyone who doesn't fit their worldview of acceptable.

[Xeno]

rayne, I see another windmill has turned up on your horizon.

RMT clearly said she did not seek to control how other people sort their lives, so why are you arguing it?

[rayne]

I may have misinterpreted the post but often simple statements of facts are used as rationales by those who seek to deny rights, it's hard to differentiate between the two.

Example:

"Poly relationships are complex legal matters that can affect children" - statement of fact, no malicious intent to deny rights.

"Poly relationships are complex legal matters that can affect children" - statement of fact, malicious intent to deny rights.

Though I will say you seem to be comtemplating that I'm out to argue with people when in fact my first post on the thread was agreeing that poly relationships won't affect my own. My second (and following) posts were clarifying my position on monogamy. My last post may have been a misinterpretation of riddles post seeking to dispell any reasons that may be misconstrued as rationales against poly and other non monogamous relationships. I'm not meaning to be arguementative.

[Lyn7]

Originally Posted by Lyn7

It is true it's individual I read many posts and lost track of the question asked. This matter is individual choice

I withdrew the argument that it works better. It is a personal choice or for some may be not a choice just something we got used to. Many in western society expect monogamy, but I was wrong saying it works better. It is just how people do things depending on their circumstances and views and what they are comfortable with. The only way I can think it is easier is because the less parties to an intimate relationship the less jealousy and conflict. Similar discussions homosexual relationships and bringing children up. Some people say bringing a child up without father or mother (male and female) figure is damaging but is it? People model good and bad behavior but having two "fathers" or mothers why is it damaging ? just because of their gender? Someone said I'm lacking imagination in saying it's how it has always been done which is true, I do, on some topics..

[riddlemethis]

I've been extremely clear on where I stand. There is no need to read between lines with me, I say exactly what I mean.

*I* do not seek to repress the properly negotiated/consensual relationship choices of anybody. The only reason to ever step into a relationship is the demonstrable unacceptable inconvenience &/or harm to others.

Otherwise I've clearly stated why *I* don't choose poly relationships. My position comes not from a lack of knowledge on these matters.

Wrt to legal rights. I'm interested in the proposed logistics of legislating for the equal recognition of poly-relationships. The *primary* reason exclusive marriage is legislated for (ie: recognised) was to do with the fair & equitable distribution of 'property' rights in the event of death & since the advent of divorce, marriage breakdown. It is in effect a 'business partnership! (loosely speaking). The more people involved in any partnership arrangement the more complex it is. I think this is a major drawback to formal government recognition of such arrangements. I mean, jeez, they can't even cop to exclusive same sex marriages!

[Justtristo]

I was reading through today's Herald Sun and a story on page 4 was of some interesting to me. The article was discussing about the secret minutes of a June 30 minute of the Young Greens membership which a journalist got a hold of. It mentioned that the Young Greens leadership discussed about pushing a public debate on legally recognizing polyamorous marriages. These is the future leaders of a political party which at least will be a third party in Australia or maybe become a major party in the long term.

It bolsters my argument that the Australian Greens are the only political party with representation in parliament that is broadly for secularism, science and reason.

[Blue Lightning]

Meanwhile, in completely un-enlightened quarters:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/co...711-21uu8.html

The official website of the Preston Mosque posted the statement on its page but has since taken it down due to the backlash from Islamic groups, including from the Islamic Council of Victoria.
The statement read: "It is very important for a wife to fulfil the rights of her husband. Why? Because Allah commanded her to, after marriage Jannah is through her husband, and also the husband is your partner. A partner is someone you share with not someone who does things for you.
"If a man is saying to his wife I will marry another woman, this is far better than saying you are divorced every time he is upset.
"Now where is the problem. If a man divorces his wife three times he has destroyed his family. They can no longer return to each other. Islam only allows two divorces and returns.
"So if your husband is telling you that he wants to take another wife and you are not doing the right thing by him, then know that he is thinking straight and using a weapon that doesn't have severe consequences."