School Chaplaincy

[rayne]

Originally Posted by Annie

Neither. Both need qualifications.


No they can't. They can only get Relief Teachers in to replace a teacher who is on leave and they are more costly to the dpt than a permanent or contracted teacher.

That I didn't know. What about teachers aids? If chaplians can't counsel students or give religious advice, than I wonder what the purpose of the push has been for chaplians in schools? Are they serving a practical purpose?

[Freedom of Thought]

Reason for the push for chaplains IMO is money.

[wolty]

Originally Posted by rayne

That I didn't know. What about teachers aids?

Teachers aides already have their job description and often work with remedial children. They don't float around the school looking for jobs. Their jobs are determined by the school, not the teachers. Sometimes they will support a teacher.
They are also very busy.

If chaplians can't counsel students or give religious advice, than I wonder what the purpose of the push has been for chaplians in schools? Are they serving a practical purpose?

The $400 million dollar question.
Chaplians are not allowed to counsel or prostelyze. So what the fuck are they paid for? Rhetorical.

The push is entirely down to the specific organisations, SU Qld, Access and so on.

[Annie]

Originally Posted by rayne

That I didn't know. What about teachers aids? If chaplians can't counsel students or give religious advice, than I wonder what the purpose of the push has been for chaplians in schools? Are they serving a practical purpose?

They may serve practical purposes as Loki has outlined above. The clincher is that you don't have to be a chaplain to serve those purposes. Scripture Union Chaplains bring their faith into schools. Not qualifications or experience. If it weren't for faith, the Scripture Union and Access Ministries (Vic) would have little to no chance of getting $400M from the gvt coffers.

I would be happy for that money to provided to the general public to serve practical purposes but it hasn't. Selecting an exclusive, untrained, unqualified group who believe in the power of prayer etc is dangerous.

[rayne]

Going back over the posts, it's a lot clearer now. If the purpose is to have SU and Access Ministries religious beliefs in schools, they're doing a piss poor effort if they can have personnale in the schools with no way to recruit.

[rayne]

Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black

Ah, Rayne, but if it was only that simple!

Chappie, giver of the high-fives, has info about this great camp, or that kewl after-school activity.

And there is no rule over proselytising during Shine, or on camp, or off school grounds.

Groomitty-groom, they go.

-sigh- How deluded I was to think they wouldn't have some underhanded way of getting around the rules.

[Annie]

Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black

Chappie, giver of the high-fives, has info about this great camp, or that kewl after-school activity.

And there is no rule over proselytising during Shine, or on camp, or off school grounds.

Groomitty-groom, they go.

Yep and being kewl n' hip happening, homeboy talking dudes and dudettes with crosses hanging round their necks 'n inked crucifixes they can rooly make an impression as a funky daddy, too kewl for skewl role model. Yo!

[Logic please]

Originally Posted by rayne

-sigh- How deluded I was to think they wouldn't have some underhanded way of getting around the rules.

It's actually a insidiously devious method. Just do and say privately , then deny officially. LINK:

Originally Posted by ABC Lateline transcript extract

JAMES BENNETT, REPORTER: ACCESS Ministries CEO, Evonne Paddison, is yet to respond to the furore over her 2008 speech, aired last night on the ABC, urging senior evangelicals to make school children "disciples”.

EVONNE PADDISON, CEO, ACCESS MINISTRIES: We have a God-given open door to children and young people with the gospel. Our Federal and State Governments allow us to take the Christian faith into schools and share it. We need to go and make disciples.

JAMES BENNETT: It's a stark contrast to what she told the ABC last month.

EVONNE PADDISON: We instruct our people not to proselytise. We're not there to convert children; we're there to educate children.

JAMES BENNETT: The speech, she gave to the Anglican Evangelical Fellowship is posted on the group's website.

...

Reverend Paddison tells the conference that students are "the greatest mission field in Australia”.

EVONNE PADDISON: We have the responsibility of fulfilling the great commission of making disciples. We need to see our scripture teachers, our chaplains especially, as facilitators. We need to be missional.

Seems incredibly clear, yes? Chaplaincy and scripture teachers are to fulfil the Great Commission via facilitation, isn't that what was clearly said? Well, *officially*, no...

Originally Posted by ABC Lateline transcript

JAMES BENNETT: ACCESS Chairman, Stephen Hale, was at the same conference.

He's told ABC radio her comments need to be viewed in light of the evangelical audience.

STEPHEN HALE, CHAIRMAN, ACCESS MINISTRIES: Well I think she was trying to say that we have a unique opportunity to go and commend the Christian faith to children, but we're not actually seeking to actually convert them.

And all fall bleating, into the *official* line...

Originally Posted by linked article transcript

The remarks appeared to breach guidelines that ban chaplains and volunteers who teach special religious instruction in Victorian government schools from proselytising.
But federal Education Minister Peter Garrett said the investigation found there had been no breach of the guidelines and no further action would be taken. He said he had received an explanation for the comments made by Dr Paddison and was satisfied the group was not trying to convert students.
Access Ministries had recently sent a letter telling chaplains who also taught Christian religious education in schools to stop doing so to avoid any blurring of lines in the roles.
''There are very strict guidelines in place to ensure that chaplaincy service providers do not engage in proselytising or misuse their positions, and we will fully investigate any complaints,'' Mr Garrett said.

With such *cough* robust investigation methods *cough*, no doubt any "individual rogue chaplains" will be shaking in their boots.

[TASIN]

So, the Government has introduced new chaplaincy guidelines which include details of the minimum qualifications now required. I was interested in following up on what these were, especially after Julia Gillard’s mention of the need for chaplains to have “appropriate” qualifications in the Hangout response.
New Guidelines July 2012
Relevant section
Subject to sections 5.5.2 and 5.5.3, school chaplains and student welfare workers must have a minimum Certificate IV in Youth Work or Pastoral Care or equivalent qualification. The minimum qualification must include mental health related and making appropriate referrals unit/s of competency. Both qualifications are part of the nationally accredited Community Services Training Package under the Australian Qualifications Framework.

The Timothy partnership online ministry training, DEEWR approved for school chaplains have recently issued study requirements for achieving the governments minimum qualifications (Certificate IV).






In order to gain the minimum qualification (certificate IV) the government accepts religious certificates such as Old Testament, New Testament and Christian Belief. How on earth do these subjects equip these chaplains to be adequate counsellors? Where school chaplains have gained their Certificate IV by this method, surely the government is applying a religious test albeit indirectly.
Are there any other takes on this?

[Loki]

I maintain questions about qualifications are unhelpful, as they lead to the sort of bullshit reported above.

For my mind more fruitful questions are along the lines of "what can a religious appointee do which a secular appointee can't?" and "A secular system demands that the best applicant for the job gets the job, what purpose is achieved by tying employment to religious belief and not to the qualifications of the applicant?"

The iniquity is not about qualifications, it is about preferring one group of applicants above another (to the extent of locking out other groups) independent of their ability to do the job (as poorly defined as that job may be).

That they can then use their position to push bullshit dogma on children is just poison icing on a very rotten and worm-eaten cake as far as I can see.