the vatican and justice

[gruber]

Do you think the Vatican will be brought to justice for its crimes against humanity (Systematic coverup of child rape, smuggling SS War criminals to South America, Genocide, Ethnic Cleansing, the counter effort to stop the spread of AIDS) any time in the next 50 years?

[rayne]

Hmm interesting question. My question to that would be: Would government intervention be needed to ensure the catholic church is accountable for its crimes on top of law enforcement? The government intervention could be implementing mandatory reporting laws for incidents of confessions of pedophilic priests. The catholic church hides behind the "sacred" confessional, take away there scapegoat so they have to abide by mandatory reporting laws and implement repercussions of not reporting and they have less of an incentive to hide.

Have you seen the documentary "Deliver us from evil"? uncomfortable to watch but fascinating at the same time.

[rayne]

Also on 4 Corners.

The Catholic Church says its response to cases of child sex abuse should be compassionate, that abusers should be brought to justice and that concealing the truth is unjust to victims.


But does it follow those principles?


Coming up, Four Corners reporter Geoff Thompson investigates a shocking case of abuse involving many children, committed over several years. The abuse in itself is horrifying, the impact on the victims devastating, but perhaps the most alarming revelation is the fact that the Church turned a blind eye to the priest's crimes. Four Corners asks why, despite clear evidence of abuse, the Church allowed him to move from parish to parish, apparently without alerting the police. The program reveals that even now the Church will not admit the full extent of what it knew about the priest's activities.

[Neil Richardson]

I wrote this piece a couple of years ago to the various publications which reported the Pope as having claimed that paedophiliac priests were the victims of the secular society in which they lived.

The story that the Pope is trying to put over here is the classic primary school kid's defence, "it wasn't my fault, it was his", while pointing out someone else who may or may not have been involved. To say that the clergy were seduced into paedophilia by what was widespread in the community is clearly nonsense; there was no general acceptance or practice of this dreadful crime then, or now. In fact, over centuries past, extrafamilial paedophilia has been the almost exclusive domain of the clergy.

The Church has been very clear about the absolute nature of its moral code and no clergyman can have been in doubt as to his responsibility, as an agent of the organization, to ensure that his flock knew and understood. This makes it obvious that any priest indulging in any sexual activity, from masturbation to sodomizing young children, just didn't believe in the concepts of mortal sin, the immortal soul, everlasting life or punishment. This must also be true of the superior ranks who hid the crimes and used threats and blackmail to silence any victims who complained.

"We must ask ourselves what we can do to repair as much as possible the injustice that has occurred," the Pope said. "We must ask ourselves what was wrong in our proclamation, in our whole way of living the Christian life, to allow such a thing to happen." Because the organization is so arrogant that it sees itself to be above the national laws and practices a "do as I say, not as I do" policy, the only real option is dissolution. No country with any real concern for its citizens, particularly the children, should allow this crooked outfit to continue operating within its borders.

[rayne]

Originally Posted by Neil Richardson

I wrote this piece a couple of years ago to the various publications which reported the Pope as having claimed that pedophiliac priests were the victims of the secular society in which they lived.

Victims as in pedophile priests are being victimised/persecuted by secular society or victim as in pedophile priests have been created as a result of secular society.

Either way the lack of logic and avoiding responsibility is amazing.

[wearestardust]

No. Sadly.

[Mithridates]

Surely the title of this thread is an oxymoron?

After seeing the repeat of the "Four Corners" program last night ("Unholy Silence"), I don't hold out much hope for justice any time soon.

As Billy Connolly pointed out, if a secular organisation had been responsible for such outrages against children, it's senior management would most likely be behind bars now. Not much hope of that when it's a mainstream religion.

Regards

Mithridates

[Seamus]

Do you think the Vatican will be brought to justice for its crimes against humanity

Not as long as the Vatican is a defacto state.I say"defaco' because the Vatican meets none of the criteria which legally define a state .EG it has no territory and no citizens. The Pope for example remains a German citizen.


Reference for the legal argument: 'The Case Of The Pope' Geoffrey Robertson QC, and expert in international law.

[stevebrooks]

Originally Posted by Seamus

Not as long as the Vatican is a defacto state.I say"defaco' because the Vatican meets none of the criteria which legally define a state .EG it has no territory and no citizens. The Pope for example remains a German citizen.


Reference for the legal argument: 'The Case Of The Pope' Geoffrey Robertson QC, and expert in international law.

**Moderator note: It appears Steve is quoting news sources on the recent Jerry Sandusky/Penn State paedophilia case.

Good News;

showed "total and consistent disregard" for the well-being of the young victims of a pedophilia scandal, a damning independent investigation found.

Freeh's report found a pattern of negligence and concealment by "the most powerful people

"They exhibited a striking lack of empathy for Sandusky's victims by failing to inquire as to their safety and wellbeing," the Freeh report found.

seemed more concerned about avoiding "bad publicity" than assisting the victims and, for 14 years, effectively covered up abuse that has shocked a nation

"Our most saddening and sobering finding is the total disregard for the safety and welfare for Sandusky's child victims by the most senior leaders

Sandusky is in prison awaiting sentencing after being convicted last month of molesting 10 boys over 15 years, recruiting victims under the guise of a program he ran for neglected youths.

Oops my bad, this just an institution thats not protected by special religious laws against legal action and supported by millions of believers, a University;

but his report also provides powerful ammunition to victims and their families considering suing the university for negligence.

We can but hope that one day instead of Penn University in the news it will be the Vatican. Just goes to show the double standards at work to the benefit of religious institutions.