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  #1  
Old 3rd May 2012, 10:36 PM
AndyP AndyP is offline
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Default How about a recovery section, just like the christian forums?

When I was trying to deal with my issues, I was not interested in going to NA to get a bashing about how I needed to find god. I did not need prayer or jesus, i needed help. Visiting that christian forum recently and seeing the drivel given to people made me think perhaps the same should be done here for those who need help but are not religious.

I challenge you, Google for narcotic or alcohol abuse for atheists. Pretty much non existent. Seems you have to find god to solve your problems.

I am sure I am not the only one here who has been through this, perhaps we can offer something to help these people too.

Look forward to other peoples thoughts on this issue. Perhaps its better of in a separate forum altogether.
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  #2  
Old 3rd May 2012, 11:11 PM
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Default Re: How about a recovery section, just like the christian forums?

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Originally Posted by AndyP View Post
I challenge you, Google for narcotic or alcohol abuse for atheists. Pretty much non existent. Seems you have to find god to solve your problems.
Perhaps that's because they're medical and health problems, and not related to either atheism or theism?
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Old 3rd May 2012, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: How about a recovery section, just like the christian forums?

I went to NA on a regular basis for about 6 years. I told early on you don't have to believe in god to stop using drugs. About my last year of going regulary there was an influx of god botherers saying you have to have god. I would and still do every now and then that I'm an athiest don't do the steps and I'm clean. Reason being for new people so they don't get fucked up if they don't believe in gods.
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Old 4th May 2012, 05:34 AM
AndyP AndyP is offline
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Default Re: How about a recovery section, just like the christian forums?

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Originally Posted by Logic please View Post
Perhaps that's because they're medical and health problems
Thats only half of it I am afraid.
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  #5  
Old 5th May 2012, 08:19 AM
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Default Re: How about a recovery section, just like the christian forums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyP View Post
When I was trying to deal with my issues, I was not interested in going to NA to get a bashing about how I needed to find god. I did not need prayer or jesus, i needed help. Visiting that christian forum recently and seeing the drivel given to people made me think perhaps the same should be done here for those who need help but are not religious.

I challenge you, Google for narcotic or alcohol abuse for atheists. Pretty much non existent. Seems you have to find god to solve your problems.

I am sure I am not the only one here who has been through this, perhaps we can offer something to help these people too.

Look forward to other peoples thoughts on this issue. Perhaps its better of in a separate forum altogether.
Hi Andy - I have experienced this, I know what you mean.
I am currently undergoing Psychotherapy (yeah, yeah Blacky – I hear what you’re thinking). The Psychotherapy process is very similar. Therapists first try to reduce you into submitting to a higher authority. Which is the therapist … Then they try to reduce you into a blithering emotional mess by making you feel infantile which is then supposed to make you confess your sins …
I saw this process really early on in my therapy and I can remember thinking … ‘NOOO – this won’t do, it’s just like religion/confession and it won’t work on me.’ So I said to my therapist "Hey, this is like religion" ...
He changed his method a little after that.

It seems that the only formula for these sorts of therapies is the higher power - religious/god/Jesus - model even when the professional that you are working with is not religious.
Atheists need their own kind of therapeutic model.
Maybe instead of asking - What would Jesus do? - We could ask - What would Christopher Hitchens do?
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Old 5th May 2012, 08:42 AM
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The problem is, we aren't professional therapists & no one here (I'd hazard, even the doctors amongst us) would be arrogant enough to think we could 'counsel' people through such complex issues. Which is what AA/NA does.

By all means, struggling atheists can find a shoulder to lean on here, but we couldn't provide a secular alternative to AA or NA - even in a virtual space. It'd be unethical IMO.
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Old 5th May 2012, 09:05 AM
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Default Re: How about a recovery section, just like the christian forums?

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Originally Posted by hooa View Post


Atheists need their own kind of therapeutic model.
It already exists and is the most validated form of therapy according to the research. Cognitive behavious therapy, either the REBT or CBT varieties, has no religious foundation.

Albert Ellis who developed REBT was clearly an atheist. He authored a document called "The Case Against Religiosity"

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In his original version of his book Sex Without Guilt, Ellis expressed the opinion that religious restrictions on sexual expression are often needless and harmful to emotional health. He also famously debated religious psychologists, including Orval Hobart Mowrer and Allen Bergin, over the proposition that religion often contributed to psychological distress. Because of his forthright espousal of a nontheistic humanism, he was recognized in 1971 as Humanist of the Year by the American Humanist Association. Ellis most recently described himself as a probabilistic atheist, meaning that while he acknowledged that he could not be completely certain there is no god, he believed the probability a god exists was so small that it was not worth his or anyone else's attention.[12]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Ellis

REBT relies on teaching rational thinking, which can be problematic with religious clients. Ellis did recognise this and was open to modifications that made it more appealing to the religious.
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  #8  
Old 7th May 2012, 05:08 PM
AndyP AndyP is offline
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Default Re: How about a recovery section, just like the christian forums?

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Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black View Post
Andy, what would you like to see? We may be able to look at ways of making something possible.

I would suppose for a start that many would feel the need to be anonymous and not want others to see their posts.
Was just thinking a place where people can come for some moral support, that does not have a bunch of people banging on about god and praying for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by riddlemethis View Post
The problem is, we aren't professional therapists & no one here (I'd hazard, even the doctors amongst us) would be arrogant enough to think we could 'counsel' people through such complex issues. Which is what AA/NA does.

By all means, struggling atheists can find a shoulder to lean on here, but we couldn't provide a secular alternative to AA or NA - even in a virtual space. It'd be unethical IMO.
Not suggesting professional help, that's what the professionals are there for.
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  #9  
Old 8th May 2012, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: How about a recovery section, just like the christian forums?

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Originally Posted by AndyP View Post
Was just thinking a place where people can come for some moral support, that does not have a bunch of people banging on about god and praying for you.



Not suggesting professional help, that's what the professionals are there for.
I think I know what you mean AP. I have never been in the situation myself, but have a couple of friends who are. One friend, on top of his addiction, was diagnose with schizophrenia. While in hospital his treating doctor told him his biggest problem was that he didnt have enough jesus in his life.
He is now having all the proper treatments, but is finding it hard to find people to just talk to. As soon as others find out about his problems, they become frightened of saying the wrong thing, and so dont say anything.
The people who seem most interested in making contact with him are the god bothers. He has lost friends, all because people are scared.
We all need someone to just talk to, or at, sometimes.
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  #10  
Old 9th May 2012, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: How about a recovery section, just like the christian forums?

There is a real issue which underlies Andy P's post. Some time ago, in a professional capacity, I had to find out a little about these recovery programmes. Initially, I was really surprised to find out the extent to which they are dominated by overt religiosity, because so many of them are founded on the "12 steps" of AA. If you haven't seen them, take a look, this from the AA Australia website:

Quote:
The heart of the suggested program of personal recovery is contained in Twelve Steps describing the experience of the earliest members of the Society:
We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.
Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

The problem here is that a familiar pattern is at play: Recruitment of vulnerable people ...
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