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  #31  
Old 29th February 2012, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: could you kill?

I'd ask him if he believed in God. If so then I'd promptly send him to meet his maker. If not then it is a case of wrong place at the wrong time. Sorry.
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  #32  
Old 29th February 2012, 03:01 PM
Sir Patrick Crocodile Sir Patrick Crocodile is offline
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Default Re: could you kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachPedro View Post
Question: how many of you think that you would have been able to walk up to an unarmed man, your age, tied to a chair, totally helpless, and cut his throat with a knife while he was watching you? urrender to the enemy
The only reason I don't do that to anybody is because it is illegal. And I couldn't care less if it was 5 or 55 years old.
If it bothers me (too much) then my only reason for not doing it to them is because it is illegal.
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  #33  
Old 29th February 2012, 04:54 PM
dilbadoon dilbadoon is offline
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Default Re: could you kill?

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Originally Posted by Crocodile View Post
The only reason I don't do that to anybody is because it is illegal. And I couldn't care less if it was 5 or 55 years old.
If it bothers me (too much) then my only reason for not doing it to them is because it is illegal.
So you would have no reservations at all in killing someone?
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  #34  
Old 29th February 2012, 06:03 PM
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But Croc what if it was your god telling you to kill


(sorry couldn't resist)
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  #35  
Old 29th February 2012, 08:30 PM
the_gelf the_gelf is offline
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Default Re: could you kill?

What if the soldier was the last clone of Carl Sagan, and you knew it was the only existence of his DNA left, and had run out of cloning machines :(

Last edited by the_gelf; 29th February 2012 at 08:31 PM.
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  #36  
Old 29th February 2012, 08:39 PM
Sir Patrick Crocodile Sir Patrick Crocodile is offline
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Default Re: could you kill?

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Originally Posted by dilbadoon View Post
So you would have no reservations at all in killing someone?
That depends on who it is. For most people yea I wouldn't think of even touching them, let alone killing them. There are some on my mind however which satisfy this condition:
Quote:
If it bothers me (too much) then ...
As specified in the post you quoted. Note the "too much" bit. I think the wording was poor though and instead of "If it bothers me (too much)" i would have said "If it fucks around with me and/or people I care about and/or obtains personal gain in an unfair manner (eg. lying to children, pseudomedicine), when I have to work my ass off for the same" instead.

Which of course classifies as "if it bothers me" - but it's longer. No, I would have no reservations killing these kinds of people, unless I didn't induce any pain while they were dying, and I couldn't watch them suffer a slow, painful death.

EDIT: After thinking about this a little more, I should say that, because I haven't killed anybody, I'm not sure. I say "no" but there is a small degree of uncertainty with it. Make that 95%+ chance no.

Of course there are some I'd rather have tortured for the rest of their lives instead of killed, but this is the individual who really fuck around with me and/or people I care about.

------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUSloth View Post
But Croc what if it was your god telling you to kill


(sorry couldn't resist)
My god would never ask me to do that; he's too busy asking people not to have sex because he hates them.

Last edited by Sir Patrick Crocodile; 29th February 2012 at 09:22 PM.
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  #37  
Old 29th February 2012, 08:40 PM
CoachPedro CoachPedro is offline
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Default Re: could you kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_gelf View Post
What if the soldier was the last clone of Carl Sagan, and you knew it was the only existence of his DNA left, and had run out of cloning machines
Where the heck did that idea come from? There's out of the box....then there's so far out of the box...it's in another one!!
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  #38  
Old 1st March 2012, 07:01 AM
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Default Re: could you kill?

I don't think that I could.

By the time the decision is being made, the enemy soldier would be a prisoner of war, which as others have pointed out have to be treated in certain ways.

As others have also pointed out, I suspect that I could kill to save myself, or possibly if my loved ones were at risk, but in open cold blood like that, no.

James
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  #39  
Old 1st March 2012, 01:24 PM
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Default Re: could you kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_gelf View Post
What if the soldier was the last clone of Carl Sagan, and you knew it was the only existence of his DNA left, and had run out of cloning machines
Now this is interesting ( a little off tangent, but interesting)
Would it matter? Should it matter?
A life is a life, is it not, each of equal value?
Taking our loved ones out of the equation, do we really believe it when we say each human life is of equal value?
Would a clone of Carl Sagan give us the same sense of connection we had with the original Carl sagan, even though we never met him, never knew him? Its the same sort of connection we feel for our favorite musos, or celebrities.
Personally, I have a lot of respect for Van Morrison, love his stuff, but from everything i have seen of him personally, he is not such a nice guy.
But would I pick his life over someone similar in every way except for the fact that I had never heard of them and knew nothing about them? Yes, I probably would, if I'm going to be honest.
Which brings me to a conversation I had with a friend, who is of the belief that the world needs a a good old fashioned plague to reduce the population by 20%
Thats all good and well, and might make sense on economic and environmental levels (well it did to him anyway) but would he be willing to lose 20% of his family? As it turned out, after some harsh pushing, the answer was no. The plague was for "other" people, leaving his world in tact.
Do we really value life if we don't know it and haven't said "hi'?
Or perhaps do we just value it a little less?



Mods feel free to shift or merge if this has been covered somewhere else
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  #40  
Old 1st March 2012, 02:04 PM
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Default Re: could you kill?

As I sometimes use hypothetical situations to make a point, I try to take the questions posed at face value when they come my way. If a scenario is too far out of the box, I refrain from contributing, and this one was on the cusp because, as Mr Black already pointed out: What the fuck am I doing in the military?

I didn't join the military partly because my father spent a lot of energy and time telling me about his experiences as a conscript, partly because my colour vision problems exclude me from doing any of the jobs that don't involve mud, blood, and getting shouted at and shot at.

I treated the scenario as though I was in the moment, with attendant uncertainties about costs and benefits of each action. Killing the soldier increases the chance of successfully escaping, but also increases the likelihood of brutal treatment in the event of capture*. Tim O'Brien, Dave Grossman and my father have been at pains to point out that a soldier fights for the people immediately around themselves, not for a flag and not for a nation. Killing someone to increase the chance that I and the people I cared most about in that situation would survive.

I am often more interested in the follow up that an OP comes through with in the wake of responses to their hypothetical scenario, and am pleasantly surprised that CP wasn't trying to set anyone up with a "gotcha: you just killed Beethoven" moment.


* My understanding of the origin of the conventions on the treatment of prisoners of war is that they were drafted out of self interest rather than humanitarian concern. A nation is more likely to get peak performance from its soldiers if those soldiers think they are likely to be treated well as prisoners, and so many nations signed on because they saw the advantage of having their people operating under the promise of not being tortured. Going to war against a nation with a history of brutalising prisoners is an extra mental daunt in an already mentally daunting situation, and the strongest arguments against the use of torture by the Coalition of the Willing was that doing so raised the torture stakes for their own people in harm's way.
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