Saved by Grace

[Fearless]

It was hard enough linking this on my eyephone, I really hope you watch it.



If this link doesn't work, could a mod please tweak it. Many thanks.

[Sieveboy]

Originally Posted by cotto

Hey Geoff,

Mate, I believe what I believe. You obviously have absolutely no concern of anything other than your own opinion which is fine by me.

However, let me just say (even though I beleive 100% Jesus Christ is lord and saviour) There are clearly two sides in this argument. Those who are for Christ and those who are against Christ. That's a 50% chance you're correct, and an equal chance you've missed the mark.

This for me means that if Jesus is non existent, because I'm happy, I have nothing to lose and everything to gain. If Jesus is lord though, this for you means that you have everything to lose and nothing to gain. This loss on your side I speak of is hell.
If you won't bother with this, I'll wipe the dust off my feet and move on my friend, because time is short and plenty of other peoples salvation is at hand

With a reply that big to such a small comment you have too much time on your hands. I suggest for your sake you pick up a bible, have a read of the gospel, and look at some evidence against your beliefs ( or non-beliefs, which is bogus might I add because that is a belief within itself) the same place you have built your argument(online) before you get back to me. Praying God opens your eyes to the truth. If you are not going to bother with this then don't bother replying. I'll simply wipe the dust off my feet and move on my friend. Because time is short and plenty of other peoples salvation is at hand!
One day, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess, Jesus Christ is lord!

Congratulations, have a cookie, Jesus makes you happy.

I mean Jesus loved me so much, that to ensure I spend eternity with him, he creates hell (eternal torture) to scare me into loving him, real loving stuff there mate.

As for the bible, can you please tell me why an all knowing and all loving god couldn't teach his followers the most basic concepts of germ theory and instead blames demons for these problems and suggests sacrificing birds and herbs to treat leprosy? I could go on, but I suggest this resource as to the quality of the bible Skeptics Annotated Bible.

Also, I hope you don't eat pork or shell fish or wear garments of two different clothes, cause that's also not allowed in the bible.

Finally, your comment on knees that bow (I think you mean bend but anyway), i refer you to this lovely history of forced conversions that many from the Christian faith (and others) loved to do here and here.

If Jesus makes you happy, great, have another cookie on me. However, wander in here tell us that we haven't read the bible (which Goldenmane clearly implied he had) despite the "Big List" pointing out many here have an ex-theological background means that your arguments fall into the "bad ideas" category I mentioned before.

Finally, please in your own words demonstrate to me that:

1: God/Jesus/Yahew (what god is called in the old testament) exists; and

2: Is worthy of worship.

Pascals wager is a pathetic attempt to demonstrate god and has been neatly disposed of previously and already in this thread.

And i am still waiting for your explanation for how evolution has been debunked and why god the arsehole gave us all the appendix? In your own time Cotto.

[Annie]

Originally Posted by cotto

. If Jesus is lord though, this for you means that you have everything to lose and nothing to gain.

A big 'if' there.
Seriously, you don't think that basing your life on a big fat lie is a loss? All the lost opportunities to learn and know more about yourself and your place is space? This is very sad.


Your feet seem to get a lot of dust on them.

[Fearless]

P.s. the video I linked above was regarding cotto's hell, spoken by someone he is more likely to actually listen to than us.

[davo]

Hmm thousands of possible gods, and billions of possible concepts of a god and you choose one to throw you lot in with.

Doubting a god existence seems a lot safer a bet than picking one out of all that thru fear, as many other gods like the one you have chosen are willing to burn you in a hell for eternity for choosing the wrong one. and any god worth it's salt can tell you are simply betting to save your arse

Pascals wager isn't a really good argument.

[Logic please]

Just a few more observational questions :

Originally Posted by cotto

However, let me just say (even though I beleive 100% Jesus Christ is lord and saviour) There are clearly two sides in this argument. Those who are for Christ and those who are against Christ. That's a 50% chance you're correct, and an equal chance you've missed the mark.

Hmmm... I'm interested in how you determined (process and evidence, please) that your deity's existence / non-existence is equiprobable?

Originally Posted by cotto

This for me means that if Jesus is non existent, because I'm happy, I have nothing to lose and everything to gain. If Jesus is lord though, this for you means that you have everything to lose and nothing to gain. This loss on your side I speak of is hell.

Pascal's Wager, as others have pointed out. I wonder if your chosen deity is the allegedly omniscient type, and would thus be aware of the self-interested "playing the odds" behind your devotions, as outlined in your post?

Originally Posted by cotto

If you are not going to bother with this then don't bother replying. I'll simply wipe the dust off my feet and move on my friend. Because time is short and plenty of other peoples salvation is at hand!
...
Praying God opens your eyes to the truth. One day, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess, Jesus Christ is lord!

So, are you here to evangelise, rather than discuss?

Originally Posted by cotto

With a reply that big to such a small comment you have too much time on your hands. I suggest for your sake you pick up a bible, have a read of the gospel, and look at some evidence against your beliefs ( or non-beliefs, which is bogus might I add because that is a belief within itself) the same place you have built your argument(online) before you get back to me.

Several unwarranted assumptions are implied in the above quote, including about the person. Got any evidence, for any of them? (As a helpful tip, I'd recommend refraining from personal imputations, here).

I also gather you didn't trouble yourself to consider the points about strawmanning atheism into a belief, here?

And a note, cotto: don't do other members who have provided questions or comments, the discourtesy of assuming that one member speaks for all, and only addressing that one. Address each individually, please.

[Loki]

Religions can't all be right, but they can all be wrong.

Really, Pascal's Wager is such pathetic grasping at thin air.

[cotto]

1: The 50/50 thing is for the simple mind to try and understand things about God, to get them curious, to make them think about it instead of just rejecting it because the have a little crew backing them up.

2: The gospels were written by Jesus's companions and disciples. Eye wittnesses. like me writing about you, if i was watching you do something.

3: whos that guy? the one who says hell isnt real? that it was made up by the church. hes not saved! He hasnt read his bible. niether have you guys because it talks about how people are going to make things up(false prophets) and lead people away from Christ.

4: Jesus came to warn us of what is to come. Hell was made for satan and his angels when the rebelled against Christ. if you reject Christ, you choose hell.

All these arguements are so silly.

[Loki]

Originally Posted by cotto

1: The 50/50 thing is for the simple mind to try and understand things about God, to get them curious, to make them think about it instead of just rejecting it because the have a little crew backing them up.

If your mind is that simple then go and post at playschool.

2: The gospels were written by Jesus's companions and disciples. Eye wittnesses. like me writing about you, if i was watching you do something.

No, they weren't. They were written by third parties some decades after the event. Even the majority of xians accept this.

3: whos that guy? the one who says hell isnt real? that it was made up by the church. hes not saved! He hasnt read his bible. niether have you guys because it talks about how people are going to make things up(false prophets) and lead people away from Christ.

Not a true xian hey? I've never heard that one before, not. You really should read that novel, your ignorance of it's contents is palpable.

4: Jesus came to warn us of what is to come. Hell was made for satan and his angels when the rebelled against Christ. if you reject Christ, you choose hell.

You really, really should read your novel, the plot of the NT is entirely centred around god raping a virgin in order for her to give birth to himself so he could commit temporary suicide to atone for a problem he deliberately caused himself and failed to fix with several previous bumbling attempts. Any random warnings are purely ancillary to the central plot, such as it is.

All these arguements are so silly.

I agree, 0/4. So much fail.

[Fearless]

Originally Posted by cotto

1: The 50/50 thing is for the simple mind to try and understand things about God, to get them curious, to make them think about it instead of just rejecting it because the have a little crew backing them up.

Example of contempt.

Originally Posted by cotto

2: The gospels were written by Jesus's companions and disciples. Eye wittnesses. like me writing about you, if i was watching you do something.

Gospels were written after 70 A.D. weren't they? Jesus allegedly died around 30 A.D. there was a gap of 40 years after his death. Don't quote me as I am not a theologian. I'd hope for your sake cotto I'm wrong as I am one of those who admit they have not the bible in its entirety.

Originally Posted by cotto

3: whos that guy? the one who says hell isnt real? that it was made up by the church. hes not saved! He hasnt read his bible. niether have you guys because it talks about how people are going to make things up(false prophets) and lead people away from Christ.

Assume you are referring to the 'guy' in the video I linked?
Example of naivety and ignorance. Making excuses in denial.

Originally Posted by cotto

4: Jesus came to warn us of what is to come. Hell was made for satan and his angels when the rebelled against Christ. if you reject Christ, you choose hell.

According to your religion. And yours is the true religion right?

Originally Posted by cotto

All these arguements are so silly.

I think I have come to the conclusion that you are trolling, albeit trolling for your religion. Why don't you go and evangelise to the other religions who have got it all wrong?

Your 'little crew' comment is enough to demonstrate your contempt. Why did you bother coming here really?