atheists defending paedophiles.

[cheree]

Ok... Relax. Im not accusing atheists as a whole(of course). But Ive noticed on a few forums lately (except for this one, of course ) that the subject of child molestation and paedophilia, has been vigorously defended, or excused by atheist members.

All I can suspect is that,

1. A lot of atheists need to have something to argue from an extreme left wing point of view.

2. some people claim atheism so they can use it as an excuse or reason to defend their behaviour in a "thats a religious moral, Not humanist way." ( the way they used to by becoming satanists)

3. They are Americans that are just sick of the overzealousness of prosecution. (Which i kinda think is just a lame reason)

So anyway, I cant help wondering... What do we think of the paedophillia laws here in Australia? Are they too strict? Not strict enough?? The sentencing?

And do you think that we are getting sick freaks adopting atheism as a way to excuse their rupugnant behaviour????

[youngmoigle]

I do a bit of lurking on other atheist forums and I've never seen a defense of pedophiles.

The happy Atheist Forum is currently running a survey asking if pedophiles should be castrated and currently it's Yes 17% No 83%. I guess some people could interpret that to mean that atheists don't want the criminals too severely punished, and then reinterpret that to mean atheists defend the crime. They'd be wrong, but that's how some people think.

Some time ago I came across a video by Jesusophile. I didn't watch all the way through, but saw enought to get an idea of where he was heading: (1) Some priests are pedophiles (2) So they must have been tempted by Satan (2) Which means they were not real Christians (4) Which means they must be atheists. Whether or not he got around to saying that atheists defend pedophiles, I'll never know because I'm not on the Internet to watch that sort of crap. (Or maybe it's a hoax, I couldn't tell.)

I notice that you didn't name the forums.

[cheree]

Originally Posted by youngmoigle

I notice that you didn't name the forums.

http://richarddawkins.net/forum/

http://www.atheistnation.net/forums/

I havent seen or read about either of the posts or vids u reffered to... I'd love to have a bit of a look. Do u have the links?


And yeah.... I never thought id see the day... But it makes me sick to the gut.
I really hope atheism isnt the new excuse for sick fuckers trying to convince the world that they have any legitimacy. Every time you turn the corner they seem to have another explanation for what they do.

[Chrys Stevenson]

Those are big forums. Perhaps you could post the link to the actual threads that concern you so we can make a better assessment of what's going on.

I can't see how support of pedophilia can be legitimately linked with atheism. Atheists (generally) support propositions which are backed by credible evidence. There is credible evidence for the proposition that children do not have the mental capacity to give informed consent to sexual activity. Sexual activity without consent is rape. I'd be surprised to find many atheists condoning rape - and especially backing it up with their atheistic beliefs.

[youngmoigle]

Originally Posted by cheree

I havent seen or read about either of the posts or vids u reffered to... I'd love to have a bit of a look. Do u have the links?

I won't bother to post links to the sites because they are not important to this discussion. I mentioned them because they were the only two I found that referred to pedophiles and atheists in the same breath. One, as I suggested, may be a hoax and the other would have had to have been wildly misinterpreted if any one was going to conclude that atheists defend pedophiles. What we really need is links to the threads that you are talking about.

I might as well cut to the chase. I doubt your claims. Sorry, but that's the way I am.

[cheree]

Originally Posted by youngmoigle

I won't bother to post links to the sites because they are not important to this discussion. I mentioned them because they were the only two I found that referred to pedophiles and atheists in the same breath. One, as I suggested, may be a hoax and the other would have had to have been wildly misinterpreted if any one was going to conclude that atheists defend pedophiles. What we really need is links to the threads that you are talking about.

I might as well cut to the chase. I doubt your claims. Sorry, but that's the way I am.

Ok. The last sentence would have sufficed.

Originally Posted by Kristy

Those are big forums. Perhaps you could post the link to the actual threads that concern you so we can make a better assessment of what's going on.

I can't see how support of pedophilia can be legitimately linked with atheism. Atheists (generally) support propositions which are backed by credible evidence. There is credible evidence for the proposition that children do not have the mental capacity to give informed consent to sexual activity. Sexual activity without consent is rape. I'd be surprised to find many atheists condoning rape - and especially backing it up with their atheistic beliefs.

I think the main issue is that we (atheists; myself included) have a habit of constantly finding an issue that we can try to disect and argue, Its part of our nature Sometimes however, in my opinion, it is just taken too far in an effort to be considered progressive, and enlightend. The links to the threads are
http://www.atheistnation.net/forums/index.php/topic,3946.30.html
I think the one of the biggest reasons these laws exist is the flawed premise among many that children (and even young teenagers) are asexual. That they are somehow inherently "innocent" and devoid of sexual feelings or desires.
No evidence supports this at all. Children as young as five begin masturbating for the same reason everyone else does it...it feels good.
The paranoia concerning sexuality in minors is so entrenched in our culture that most people treat pedophiles worse than multiple murderers. Individuals have been prosecuted for drawing pictures of adolescents engaged in sex acts. A girl in Wisconsin (I believe) was charged with disseminating child pornography when she videotaped herself masturbating and posted the video on the web. You can access a master list of sex offenders in your area but no such list exists for convicted killers. This is not rational.


http://www.richarddawkins.net/forum/...sters&start=25
What if there is no abuse; the older person genuinely cares for the younger person, and the younger person knows full well what they are consenting to, and is physically cabale of having sex safely?
Should all rapists be castrated? The reason having sex with children is illegal is the assumption that they won't be fully aware of what they are consenting to (if they give consent), therefore their crime is rape.
Would you care to give us some figures proving peodophiles are beyond rehabilitation?
Have you actually thought about why peodophilia is wrong, or is this just a conditioned knee-jerk reaction? I'm guessing that you're from the UK?


These threads and posts may seem out of context, so please read them fully. Espescially the last 2 or 3 pages.

Richonet, has had a few posts deleted due to links to Pro-Paedo sites.

[Seamus]

@Cheree

I'm really not sure what you're asking.


Are you asking if our laws which protect young children with being abused by adults are enough? I think so. Child abuse is a great social evil which will not be solved by more laws. Eg there are STILL many adults who sincerely believe it's OK to hit a child "under some circumstances".

Some states in the US have the so-called "Romeo and Juliet" laws,where if two underage teens have consensual sex,the older is charged with statutory rape. That's rare in Australia,and not a law support.I have no problems with sexual activity between non related peers.I think incest is a bad idea,not on moral or scientific grounds,but because it's such a powerfu ltaboo,and can cause great psychological harm..


My personal,emotional opinion is: I understand that sexual attraction is involuntary.Our actions are not. I do not accept the defence of "poor impulse control". Hurt a child,you're arsepaper. It is my sincere hope that any child molestors will be killed in prison,painfully.

[cheree]

Originally Posted by Seamus

@Cheree

It is my sincere hope that any child molestors will be killed in prison,painfully.

First response about this that i agree with 100%.

Every time i say something along those lines, I get a boot shoved so far up my arse, the steel caps make my teeth hurt.

THANK YOU!!!!

[Vonnie]

Cheree, you quoted one thread in one forum. So, it is apparently an utter overexaggeration when you say... "But Ive noticed on a few forums lately (except for this one, of course ) that the subject of child molestation and paedophilia, has been vigorously defended, or excused by atheist members."

Even on the one that you quote, I don't see "vigorous defence". I see a few posts, mainly about mutually consenting teenagers. I have seen similar discussions on many different non-atheist forums, particularly whenever, say, a 17 year old is charged with carnal knowledge of his 15 year old girlfriend.

And as for these responses:

Originally Posted by Seamus

...It is my sincere hope that any child molestors will be killed in prison,painfully.

and

Originally Posted by cheree

First response about this that i agree with 100%.

Every time i say something along those lines, I get a boot shoved so far up my arse, the steel caps make my teeth hurt.

THANK YOU!!!!

I'd like to point to anyone who is lurking, trying to gather evidence about "evil atheists", that the above opinions are not atheistic opinions! While Seamus and Cheree (and others, of every ilk - theist, atheist, muslem, vegetarian, intelligent, stupid, ignorant, educated - whatever) have similar opinions (which, essentially, condone murder), many many atheists would find these comments anathema, even though we hate pedophiles.

It appears to me that Cheree very much overexaggerated in her initial post in this thread. For the life of me, I can't work out what would be a good reason for this sensationalism.

Vonnie

[SinisterDexter]

On an emotional level I tend to agree.

But the "problem" of paedophilia has generally been overplayed, like so many other safety issues.

People often opine for the old, 'safe' days when kids would run free and play without having to worry about paedophiles. I'm not saying they're not out there, but the risks are so very low and the emotional social response to wrap kids in cotton wool does just as much damage to kids' development.

But I also have problems with ideas like "kids should be allowed to be kids" and "kids should be allowed to retain their innocence". Children do not jump straight from child to adult, but our society likes to ignore the fact that there is an awkward in-between zone where kids are not necessarily kids anymore, but they're certainly not adults either. As an atheist I don't like the concept of "innocence" (not in the legal sense, in the sense of being naive about everything) as it is applied to children. Every time they absord new knowledge they become less "innocent" and hence, as an atheist and a skeptic, I think this is a great thing.

What all kids are entitled to, IMHO, is to grow up informed and understanding of the world around them - warts and all. The sooner they can do this the better they can grow into accomplished and knowledgeable adults. The wish to keep kids kids is a selfish one driven by (some) parents.