Jeebus and his stories: hypothesis

[Iseeyouthere]

After a discussion with my friend, I've come up with several hypothesis regarding Jeebus. At most, I would like to just get this out so I can get some feedback. I

These stories I had heard during my junior years when scripture class came around. How can he get a man to walk on water, then suddendly falls into deep water? How can he turn water to wine?

Water walking:
I have a feeling that the man who "walked" on water acutally walked on a sandbar... and when the sandbar ended, he fell into deep water.

Ocean travel may or may not been used back thenm, or perhaps it were safer to travel on foot along the coast. Knowledge of what a sandbar is may not of been known to desert dwellers.
So... people with no knowledge of what a sandbar is see a man walking far out in the water... not that hard for them to believe that this Jeebus fellow was using the 'powers of god' to make a man walk on water.

Water to wine?
The trick of the mind. A dye into the water turning it red perhaps? Or a jug known to have water had its water replaced before hand? Traditions have a 'water' jug and a 'wine' jug. Wouldn't be too hard to swap them around when no one is paying attention.

Expanding on of the dye in water..
http://www.traemcneely.com/wp-conten...-oranges1.jpeg

Feeding 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish
A wide-spread hypnosis. I've seen hypnotist managing to trick people into thinking their hands are glued together or they are holding a baby. This could be applied to a crowd that large thinking enough food is being past around and they are getting their fill.
They fail to mention if the 5000 made the trip... Could it be that some past out/died from hunger?


I've currently ended up confusing myself now. I apologise for not fully explaining out these hypothesis. As I type, more assumptions come forward and I'm struggling to convey my hypothesis.

The reason why I am doing this is to try and think of how one man can gain so much influence and how he could of done it using methods at the time.
But one thing is for certain. I can not prove that these are true.

I just wanted to get these off my chest and hopefully expand or put these to rest.

[Xeno]

ISYT, try googling the key elements of each miracle, e.g. 'water into wine myth' and so on. They are not unique and there is simply no reason to believe any of them is based on any natural event. Nothing corroborating those events is related in any other chronicle of that period. Remember also, the four gospels were written long after the supposed events took place, and each with its own political slant and selection of tales.

[Iseeyouthere]

Originally Posted by Xeno

ISYT, try googling the key elements of each miracle, e.g. 'water into wine myth' and so on. They are not unique and there is simply no reason to believe any of them is based on any natural event. Nothing corroborating those events is related in any other chronicle of that period. Remember also, the four gospels were written long after the supposed events took place, and each with its own political slant and selection of tales.

Understandable.
I often wondered if the stories written down were distorted through time.

[Justtristo]

A lot of the stories in the Gospels were reworked from either the Old Testament or from other religions.

For instance the the Water turning into Wine story in the Gospel of John copied the story of the god Dionysus turning water into wine. The whole death and resurrection of Jesus is most likely a reworking of various dying and rising god myths which were commonplace in the mediterranean of the 1st and 2nd centuries.

Scholars such as Robert M Price in both Deconstructing Jesus and the Incredible shrinking son of man go into this in much detail.

[AUSloth]

First up the whole concept of a special dispensation from the laws of physics for one bloke 2000 odd years ago is suspect by itself. Then add as previously posted the fact that the same tricks had been supposedly performed by earlier magicians. Finally look at the timing of the miracles with reference to the authors. The first written parts are from Paul about 20 years after the fact (if there are any) and he writes fuck all about miracles or even jebus's teachings. Next cab off the rank another 20 years later is Mark with a couple of miracles. Now 60 or 70 years down the track ( probably no one even alive from when the events occurred) you get mathew and Luke a few more miracles and lots more "jebus said" shite. End up with John a century down the track and miracles coming out of his arse everywhere. Pretty suspect if you have ever played whispers at a party. If you need a real world example of how messiah myths develop look up cargo cults and John Frum. Sorry no links from my mobile.
Something I need to look up myself is when did Nazareth got started. It may not have even existed then. I read some speculation that the later gospel writers may have screwed up and jebus was a Nazarite not from Nazareth. Which would stuff any miracles involving dead people or alcohol as these were avoided vigorously by that sect. So the evidence from bible scholars mounts up to show what a steaming pile the babble really is.

[loubert]

awwww come on....see it can be done..

[AUSloth]

Originally Posted by loubert

awwww come on....see it can be done..

LOL I've seen the light and been converted (to golf)

[Seamus]

There is NO credible evidence to support the notion that the NT is anything more than the mythology of Christianity.

By long tradition,Jewish prophets spoke to God and performed miracles.It was essential that Jesus do the same if he was to have any credibility.So he and/or his followers invented a whole bunch of stuff.

In his early ministry,some of Jesus' followers thought he was he the prophet Jeremiah reborn,and that John The Baptist was Ekeziel reborn.

Interesting to note when Jesus spoke to God on crucial matters,he was ignored. (I can't get my head around the conclusion that if Jesus is God,he was taking to himself)

In the Garden of Gethsemane Jesus asked that he be spared his ordeal..On the cross,he cried in agony "Eli,Eli lama sabacthani?" ( God,God,,why have you forsaken me?) Obviously not listening to himself.

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In the public service there are said to be three kinds of manager:

(1) Habitually walks on water. (virtually unheard of)

(2) Walks on water in emergencies. (extremely rare)

(3) Passes water in emergencies. (most common)


The same applies to politicians.

[Iseeyouthere]

I think I was trying to gain a different perspective of how to look at it. Different path, but leads to the same bullshit.

Nothing here can be proven, of course. No hard evidence.

[youngmoigle]

When the gospellers were inventing the story of Jesus, they trawled through the Old Testament looking for anything that might be used to enhance the reputation of their messiah. From the book of Kings they took some of the miracles of Elijah and Elisha, exaggerated them quite a bit, and then claimed that Jesus had done them.

I Kings 17:22 Resurrecting the widow's son (cf Lazarus)
II Kings 4:42-44 Feeding 100 men with 20 loaves - and plenty of scraps leftover (cf Jesus fed the multitude)
II Kings 6:6 Caused an axehead to float on water (cf Jesus walked on water.

http://www.bcbsr.com/survey/eli.html


The water into wine miracle was already a standard with pagan gods like Osiris, Dionysus, et al. It was usually their first miracle, so the gospel writers made sure that it was also the first miracle for Jesus.