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Thread: New website urges Australians to Keep Religion Out of Politics

  1. #51
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    Default Re: New website urges Australians to Keep Religion Out of Politics

    Can we not argue about the validity (or otherwise) of the question? It is here to stay and will not be changed. Since the information *is* used to determine services, funding, and political policies, then at least it should be as accurate as possible.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: New website urges Australians to Keep Religion Out of Politics

    Quote askegg said View Post
    Can we not argue about the validity (or otherwise) of the question? It is here to stay and will not be changed. Since the information *is* used to determine services, funding, and political policies, then at least it should be as accurate as possible.
    Trouble scanning that without the voice inflection.

    Do you mean "can we stop arguing about.." or "Why don't we argue about..." .

    It seems to me that the question as it stands appears to produce a bias toward christianity as the "right" answer, which is then used as an excuse for non-secular choices by government.

    Even if the census was quite accurate that should not then lead to non-secular favouring of christianity.
    "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

    History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: New website urges Australians to Keep Religion Out of Politics

    Yes the Census question is loaded and we should continue campaigning for change. However, it is fixed for the coming Census, so let's ensure only the rabid "Jesus was born of a virgin and I attend church to worship his zombie corpse" types tick the "Christian" box.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: New website urges Australians to Keep Religion Out of Politics

    Quote askegg said View Post
    Yes the Census question is loaded and we should continue campaigning for change. However, it is fixed for the coming Census, so let's ensure only the rabid "Jesus was born of a virgin and I attend church to worship his zombie corpse" types tick the "Christian" box.
    That should be a choice on the form, it would be great to see their faces when they saw the option..
    "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

    History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: New website urges Australians to Keep Religion Out of Politics

    Quote DanDare said View Post
    That should be a choice on the form, it would be great to see their faces when they saw the option..

    haha! If only we could, and for all of them. Would love to see scientology.
    It's a very interesting thing, losing one's religion. It's like a revolution for one. --Jimmy Carr

  6. #56
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    Default Re: New website urges Australians to Keep Religion Out of Politics

    Quote DanDare said View Post
    Only as useless as the census question itself. Its validity is not the point, the different result you are likely to get highlights how leading the census question is.
    Validity (or not) of the census was not my point, Dan, but rather the non-comparability of a non-random sample poll of doubtful validity and reliability on question A as commentary on a full census on question B, regardless of one's view on question B. It would take a series of sound studies external to the census to be persuasive.
    There are no good arguments for gods.

  7. #57
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    Default Re: New website urges Australians to Keep Religion Out of Politics

    Reading the list that askegg posted (#51), I wondered whether people can put more than one 'tick'. For example, Chinese people tend to go in for ancestor worship even if they are Buddhists, Catholics or whatever. There is a large Christian cemetery on Hong Kong island which is sited according to feng shui principles and where descendants go on Ching Ming for grave-sweeping and ancestor worship.
    ...
    What, indeed, is an atheist? He is one who destroys delusions which are harmful to humanity in order to lead men back to nature, to reality, to reason. Baron d'Holbach

    _____

    If we go back to the beginnings of things, we shall always find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that imagination, rapture and deception embellished them; that weakness worships them; that custom spares them; and that tyranny favours them in order to profit from the blindness of men. Baron d'Holbach

  8. #58
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    Default Re: New website urges Australians to Keep Religion Out of Politics

    I think a poll would be a great idea - entirely as an awareness campaign. "The spectators" would be the point, surely. Show people that there is disparity in results because of how they answer the question in the census, as opposed to what they actually do/think/believe. Publicity is crucial in this, IMO.
    "The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad."
    Salvador Dali

  9. #59
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    Default Re: New website urges Australians to Keep Religion Out of Politics

    Quote Bolero said View Post
    I think a poll would be a great idea - entirely as an awareness campaign. "The spectators" would be the point, surely. Show people that there is disparity in results because of how they answer the question in the census, as opposed to what they actually do/think/believe. Publicity is crucial in this, IMO.
    X 100
    Belief means literally to love one's opinion more than the actual reality

  10. #60
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    Default Re: New website urges Australians to Keep Religion Out of Politics

    Quote Bolero said View Post
    I think a poll would be a great idea - entirely as an awareness campaign. "The spectators" would be the point, surely. Show people that there is disparity in results because of how they answer the question in the census, as opposed to what they actually do/think/believe. Publicity is crucial in this, IMO.
    Bolero - thank you for seeing my point.

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