Thankyou Lion IRC for agreeing to the debate.

I think I adequately outlined specifically by the thrust of the arguments is the fact faith is purely faith. Lion also got to the point that he was presenting this O+O god as a metaphysical construct. I don't disagree at all that it is a construct.

Whereas Lion IRC takes the view that the paradox is created by man that contradicts his 'god', the critical thinker in me can recognise that it's in fact the other way around. God did not create man, man created god.

Theism that claims elements of a god based on scripture, whatever religion it is, relies on faith alone. There is a point that reality has to be circumvented to explain what is effectively mystical concepts that have had on the most part, thousands of years of 'evolution'.

As mankind progresses, 'apology' for the way that concepts held with regard gods progresses. We find religion takes radical changes to fit into the current scope of thought. This is why they are called apologists. Religion is consistantly working at making itself explainable, moreso with advancement of science.

Apologists claim the right to question bodies of evidence that are open to real critique of a scientific level, yet scream blue murder if they can't claim a 'magic wand' and rights in our societies above and beyond others based on that.
We see them sitting back trying to find some way to attack evidence or have it misconstrued, or muddy the argument and they have techniques to do this as well.

I think this is the simply hypocrisy.

Usually these same people are doing it as well, any simple search on the web can show the techniques of certain individuals that are active in spreading misinformation in the name of their faith. When it comes down to it, they don't have anything supporting their own position. When they are put on the spot over their claims, it becomes clear that they have to construct a large, tenous framework to try and make the position even logically possible.

I'm all for questioning science, that is how it WORKS, but with realistic and factual, research and evidence that contributes to the growing knowledge of mankind.

I'm also all for questioning beliefs and not ashamed of using the tools thousands of years have given us, that have made excessive contributions to the well being of all humankind.

So long as we have people that take a position and find any way to justify it as their method, that progression will be slowed.

I was going to post some stuff I had prepared here to 'hammer in the nails', with a collation of claims from Lion. I am realistic too that what has been presented on the boards is not really where he is coming from, I have seen his posts and discussions all over the web, but I am hoping he will actually think, call me stupid sigh. I'm not silly enough to not pick up on his 'technique'. But thats a standard apologist for you.

I await the next version of the myriad concepts of myriad gods that people put forward to me regularly with interest.

God B. Less