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Thread: My position: promoting atheism is a very high priority moral responsibility

  1. #51
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    Default Re: My position: promoting atheism is a very high priority moral responsibility

    Such pretty aggro:
    Like sitting on your right hand
    Before getting off.
    EJB

    Iím not one of the dead ones yet. - Ms Fishie.


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  3. #52
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    Logic please is offline Some need an imaginary wingman Super Moderator
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    Default Re: My position: promoting atheism is a very high priority moral responsibility

    Mod note:
    Quote Theorease said View Post
    Quote Logic please said View Post
    Theorease, we trust that your next response will be free of the ego-driven baiting, goading, boastful, trolling bullshit that has largely characterised your comments to date?
    (For clarity, that’s a formal mod direction to that effect).
    If your intended response to this is to argue the toss... don’t bother. We’ve seen all of your equivocations and obsfucations to date, and we remain wholly unimpressed. Continuing them will be viewed extremely dimly.
    Cheers.
    Wow. Just...wow.
    Quote Theorease said View Post
    The trouble is that people have difficulty discerning statements of honesty from boastful statements; myself included. I mean seriously; how can the two be distinguished between? Fucked if I know...
    Oh but you do allegedly. Perhaps you could do us all the simple service of saying how Logic please please pretty please?
    Wrong answer.

    Theorease has a couple of days off to reflect on why they thought that blatantly trolling a clear mod direction was a desirable response. And to consider the irony (and incongruity) of presenting as the "smartest atheist in the room"... then playing dumb when repeatedly called out on their serial trolling, goading, baiting, ego-driven fuckwittery. Surely someone of your self-claimed brainpower and talent could work that out for themselves?

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Logic please; 7th March 2018 at 11:15 PM.
    *Gods* are not only a legal fiction, but a fiction in every way. Just ask the nearest hippie...

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  5. #53
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    Default Re: My position: promoting atheism is a very high priority moral responsibility

    Keep It Real is apparently going par for their own course.

    I've got this weird optimism that shows up like an uninvited guest at the most inopprortune times. It tells me that because actual people that I know are genuinely decent, thoughtful, and intelligent, and open to having their minds changed, that this is the norm.

    It fucking isn't the norm. People are panicky animals like any monkey troop.

    Seems it bleeds over to any group. I cite Krauss and Mythicism.

    (Clarification: I cite Krauss because people rejecting the claims. I believe the victims, and it fucks me off that people are claiming skepticism as excuses for rejecting claims.)
    Last edited by Goldenmane; 7th March 2018 at 11:41 PM. Reason: Additional
    -Geoff Rogers

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  6. #54
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    Default Re: My position: promoting atheism is a very high priority moral responsibility

    Quote Goldenmane said View Post
    Keep It Real is apparently going par for their own course.

    I've got this weird optimism that shows up like an uninvited guest at the most inopprortune times. It tells me that because actual people that I know are genuinely decent, thoughtful, and intelligent, and open to having their minds changed, that this is the norm.

    It fucking isn't the norm. People are panicky animals like any monkey troop.

    Seems it bleeds over to any group. I cite Krauss and Mythicism.

    (Clarification: I cite Krauss because people rejecting the claims. I believe the victims, and it fucks me off that people are claiming skepticism as excuses for rejecting claims.)
    You know what my attitude to George Pell is don't you mate? I am fucking SURE he is guilty. In fact one part of me would be sorely tempted to beat the fucker to death for all the pain he has caused to children, their parents etc. But he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Not for his sorry ass, but for us. For civilisation. We must restrain the beast in us, so no matter how much dare I say it -pleasure it would be for me to inflict pain on that monster, it would not really solve anything, and it would deprive me of my humanity.

    I don't hero-worship Krauss. Yes, I have liked his books and talks and shit that I am interested in. It seems very likely, almost certain, that he has some serious allegations to answer, and is, in fact, probably guilty. And justice will not be served by a wall of silence due to cult-worship. So I presume his innocence, because it is the right thing to do until proven otherwise. This is not apologetics, nor meant as an insult for wronged and hurting people. It is how society, broken as it is, prevents the slide into barbarism. Women have suffered and been hurt from his actions, almost certainly. I am only a man, and have never walked a mile in a woman's moccasins, so I know squat about the horrible experiences of the victims of predators. But I do know this. Millions of women died, after being merely accused of witchcraft. Lynching Krauss before due process won't un-burn those witches, or improve civilisation or the safety of its members one iota, IMHO.
    Last edited by Darwinsbulldog; 8th March 2018 at 11:36 AM.
    Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

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  8. #55
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    Default Re: My position: promoting atheism is a very high priority moral responsibility

    Quote Darwinsbulldog said View Post
    You know what my attitude to George Pell is don't you mate? I am fucking SURE he is guilty. In fact one part of me would be sorely tempted to beat the fucker to death for all the pain he has caused to children, their parents etc. But he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Not for his sorry ass, but for us. For civilisation. We must restrain the beast in us, so no matter how much dare I say it -pleasure it would be for me to inflict pain on that monster, it would not really solve anything, and it would deprive me of my humanity.

    I don't hero-worship Krauss. Yes, I have liked his books and talks and shit that I am interested in. It seems very likely, almost certain, that he has some serious allegations to answer, and is, in fact, probably guilty. And justice will not be served by a wall of silence due to cult-worship. So I presume his innocence, because it is the right thing to do until proven otherwise. This is not apologetics, nor meant as an insult for wronged and hurting people. It is how society, broken as it is, prevents the slide into barbarism. Women have suffered and been hurt from his actions, almost certainly. I am only a man, and have never walked a mile in a woman's moccasins, so I know squat about the horrible experiences of the victims of predators. But I do know this. Millions of women died, after being merely accused of witchcraft. Lynching Krauss before due process won't un-burn those witches, or improve civilisation or the safety of its members one iota, IMHO.
    There is language in here that is, in my opinion, not very helpful. The talk of lynching and witch hunts and the like is hyperbolic language that does not well represent or convey exactly what is happening.

    What is happening here is that people wish to see measures put in place so that he is not able to harm women. And it is right and proper that, for example, ASU put him on leave while they investigate. That is what due process looks like. And it is right and proper that bodies at least temporarily sever ties with him while they go through their processes to decide whether or not to continue partnerships with him - again, that's due process. And it is also perfectly legitimate for conference and event organisers to cease inviting Krauss to attend or present if his presence makes other presenters and attendees uncomfortable. Again, this is perfectly in accord with due process.

  9. #56
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    Default Re: My position: promoting atheism is a very high priority moral responsibility

    Hi Theorease
    I am very willing to oppose your position and (very unusually) I’m an atheist since birth. On Richard Dawkin’s 1 to 7 scale, I’m an 8!
    Let me recount an experience I had last week on the high seas off New Zealand. In front of me in a queue was a woman with whom I had a long conversation.....she told me her son had just had his second heart operation and the prognosis was not good. She later revealed she had already lost a second son who died in her arms. Understandably she proclaimed receiving great comfort from her belief in God. I felt guilty because of my non-revealed atheism.
    Many elderly find comfort in their religion. Many good people are religious and whilst I think this would be a better world without any religion, I never bring the subject up with devout believers. You will never convince believers by facts so why bother anyway. Live and let live!
    Last edited by The Amiable Atheist; 16th March 2018 at 07:02 PM.

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  11. #57

    Default Re: My position: promoting atheism is a very high priority moral responsibility

    Hi Theorease
    Hiya Amiable Atheist.

    I am very willing to oppose your position and (very unusually) I’m an atheist since birth.
    I am so very pleased somebody has decided to politely explore this one with me. Props. I'm not currently so sure anybody is born an atheist, or theist for that matter, but nor am I disagreeing with your statement as I haven't really thought about that one much.

    On Richard Dawkin’s 1 to 7 scale, I’m an 8!
    I fall short of a 7 personally as I'm not sure it's possible to be certain of atheism (or anything else for that matter!) but admire your conviction and most of those that know me would probably call me an 8 too.

    Let me recount an experience I had last week on the high seas off New Zealand.
    A cruise or navy? Just curious - OT but still...

    In front of me in a queue was a woman with whom I had a long conversation.....she told me her son had just had his second heart operation and the prognosis was not good. She later revealed she had already lost a second son who died in her arms. Understandably she proclaimed receiving great comfort from her belief in God... Many elderly find comfort in their religion.
    Indeed, agreed, many people do find comfort in their religion; both young and old. I hate to use such a very cliched saying but, however, "you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs." Or another: "you can't please all the people all the time." To cite a couple of extreme examples; many (if not most) Westerners think the coalition's war in Iraq and the nuclear weapons detonated over Hiroshima and Nagasaki were good ideas, despite the thousands of killed and maimed children resulting from these operations.

    Many good people are religious and whilst I think this would be a better world without any religion, I never bring the subject up with devout believers. You will never convince believers by facts so why bother anyway. Live and let live!
    Agreed, there are many many delightful, clever, charitable, warm, decent religious people around, of every faith I have come across so far. I'm pretty certain you are incorrect that they can never turn from their faith however; just look at all those who have deconverted after reading Harris;Dawkins;Hitchens etc. for example.

    I felt guilty because of my non-revealed atheism.
    I don't really understand this statement. You didn't argue with her about the veracity of her beliefs so why feel guilty?
    Last edited by Theorease; 17th March 2018 at 03:40 AM. Reason: Grammer

  12. #58
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    Default Re: My position: promoting atheism is a very high priority moral responsibility

    Theorease
    Thanks for taking the time to respond to my bit. I think our views probably coincide. I personally have always had trouble with responding to a person who expresses religious convictions.
    It is Forum policy not to try and promote authorship (book etc.) so can I simply ask you individually if I could send you what I have written to obtain feedback/criticism, so I can know Iím on the right track or not?!
    Last edited by The Amiable Atheist; 17th March 2018 at 11:11 AM.

  13. #59
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    Default Re: My position: promoting atheism is a very high priority moral responsibility

    @TAA - rather than chucking your email up in plain text, why not pass the info via Private Message, and edit your details out of the post?

    Just a hint, which I hope is helpful.
    EJB

    Iím not one of the dead ones yet. - Ms Fishie.


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