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Thread: Marriage Equality is a Call to Action for the non-Religious

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Marriage Equality is a Call to Action for the non-Religious


    Cartoonists like the excellent Cathy Wilcox are an invaluable asset in getting information across.
    EJB

    I’m not one of the dead ones yet. - Ms Fishie.


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  3. #12
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    Default Re: Marriage Equality is a Call to Action for the non-Religious

    Quote The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
    ...
    Cartoonists like the excellent Cathy Wilcox are an invaluable asset in getting information across.
    Indeed, I'm a big fan of Cathy's work, and sought permission from her to reproduce a cartoon of hers in an AFA Media Release almost 18 months ago, but which is still very relevant!
    "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; ..."

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    Beer, if drunk with moderation, softens the temper, cheers the spirit and promotes health."
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  4. #13
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    Default Re: Marriage Equality is a Call to Action for the non-Religious

    A new article by Jeff Sparrow. Did the LNP shoot itself in the foot? Or the head?
    Worth a read.

    Abbott's opposition to marriage equality will cost the Liberals for years to come

    Tony Abbott and other Liberal conservatives still imagine they can build a winning constituency from the no side. Instead, he has wrapped the party in impossible tangles

    Though he devised his plebiscite scheme to trap equal marriage advocates, Tony Abbott unwittingly created a snare for the Liberal party, one that’s wrapped them in impossible tangles.

    With every poll showing public support for reform, a cannier conservative might have quietly passed the necessary legislation, thus taking the subject off the table.

    Instead, as I argued back in 2016, by committing the Liberals to a popular vote, Abbott placed his disagreement with the majority of Australians right in the centre of public debate.

    He linked support for marriage equality – something that conservative parties elsewhere have accepted without much fuss – to opposition to the Liberal party, and he forced those who want change (namely, most of the population) to become politically active so as to get it.

    Already, Malcolm Turnbull’s version of the plebiscite has unleashed an extraordinary tide of sentiment.

    A few random examples:
    • Triple M – a station you might once have associated with “Tony’s tradies” – has updated its logo to incorporate a rainbow flag.
    • Pubs and music venues across Sydney have staged an Equality Weekender to encourage people to enrol to vote.
    • Singer Meghan Trainor reacted to the use of her image by no campaigners by joining Miley Cyrus, Ellen DeGeneres, Stephen Fry and other stars in urging Australians to support reform.
    • The Officeworks chain has declared it won’t allow the printing of hate speech at its facilities.
    • In Sydney and Melbourne and elsewhere, town halls have been illuminated to urge a yes vote.
    • Some 20 000 people rallied in Melbourne.

    For young Australians in particular, opposition to marriage reform just seems bizarre, a weird legacy of a prejudice they’ve never endorsed.

    And now they’re voting.

    The Australian Electoral Commission has revealed that 90,000 new voters – most of them young – have registered since the poll was announced, a number it calls “extraordinary”.

    Something like a million Australians have either updated their details or enrolled for the first time – and, once they’re on the roll, they’re legally obliged to participate in future elections.

    Not surprisingly, some Liberal party insiders are already aghast about what their leaders have done.

    “You’re motivating a group of people, the large portion of them young, who are naturally going to vote against you at the next election,” a worried strategist told Buzzfeed’s Mark Di Stefano. “It’s just not smart.”

    You almost feel sorry for the hapless Turnbull (oh, wait – no you don’t).

    Unlike, say, Labor’s Penny Wong (who voted to ban same-sex marriage and spoke against equality as late as 2010), Turnbull’s always publicly endorsed reform.

    But after pushing through his weird postal plebiscite, he can’t campaign for a yes vote with any passion, not least because he couldn’t appear at rallies without being booed. While Bill Shorten’s team rushes to associate itself with the yes campaign, Turnbull must spend most of his time defending a shonky process that pleases no one.

    Not surprisingly, the poll has widened the already deep divisions within the Coalition.

    Turnbull is openly at odds with Abbott, who has gleefully positioned himself as the unofficial leader of the nos.

    Abbott realises the plebiscite will damage a prime minister equally mistrusted by the left and the right. But he also imagines, quite bizarrely, that he and the other Liberal conservatives can build a winning electoral constituency from the no side.

    The Herald Sun’s James Campbell recently reported that the Australian Christian Lobby, Marriage Alliance, the Catholic archdiocese of Sydney, the Anglican diocese of Sydney and other conservative groups have begun sharing databases as they campaign together as the Coalition for Marriage.

    Campbell thinks the coalition could be the beginning of that mythical beast, a rightwing alternative to GetUp.

    But there’s a big problem with that idea: namely, opposition to same-sex rights has become a fringe preoccupation.

    (snip about Abbotts homophobia.)

    So here’s the paradox
    The best outcome for the Liberals, given the pickle they’re in, would be for the high court to strike down the plebiscite process.

    If that happens – if the postal vote’s derailed – the life will go out of the grassroots activism and marriage reform will stall until the next election.

    Barring some huge upset, Labor will win power and then, presumably, amend the Marriage Act.

    Under those circumstances, the Liberal right and the ACL will continue pretending they represent mainstream Australia. They’ll bluster about lawyers interfering with the democratic process; they’ll imply that the no campaign would have won.

    Marriage will become the Lost Cause of the Australian Right: something that conservative politicians and pundits mutter darkly about, without any real hope of changing.

    If, on the other hand, the postal survey goes ahead, the Liberals are cooked, whatever the result.

    The campaign for the postal vote will initiate thousands of people into participatory politics. In schools, in universities and in workplaces, they’ll campaign for a yes vote – with almost every institution or organisation that matters to young people already urging reform.

    They’ll march on the street; they’ll hand out leaflets; they’ll go to marriage equality events.

    The campaign itself will highlight the difference between the pro- and anti-equality forces.

    Does anyone really think that Lyle Shelton and his allies on the religious right could, for instance, have organised an event comparable to the rally in Melbourne on Saturday: a huge assembly, joyous and young and angry?

    If the yes case wins, a generation will know they played a role in reshaping the country – and they did so in opposition to the Liberal party.

    That’s not something you easily forget.

    Even if the yes case loses, participants will (rightly) blame the trickiness of the postal vote for frustrating the majority sentiment identified in every reputable survey – and they’ll be more determined than ever to get the Liberals out.

    Either way, we might well be on the cusp of a significant new anti-Liberal constituency, one that will affect Australian politics for years to come.
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    The Nizkor Project- Logical Fallacies

    Atheist: n; A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others.
    —Chaz Bufe, The American Heretic’s Dictionary

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  6. #14
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    Default Re: Marriage Equality is a Call to Action for the non-Religious

    I hope his predictions are correct.
    The meaning of your life, is what you choose to make it.

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    Default Re: Marriage Equality is a Call to Action for the non-Religious

    Quote wolty said View Post
    For young Australians in particular, opposition to marriage reform just seems bizarre, a weird legacy of a prejudice they’ve never endorsed.

    And now they’re voting.
    yep. I already posted about polling my daughter. last night I polled my son

    Q: do you know anyone who is against it
    A: no. but I have heard of people who are, mostly the xtian dudes
    The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it. (Osho)

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  10. #16
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    Default Re: Marriage Equality is a Call to Action for the non-Religious

    Elite Catholic schools defend gay marriage



    http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/gay...30f566e9a1dd37


    The rectors of Melbourne’s Xavier College and Sydney’s Saint Ignatius’ College, whose alumni include Opposition Leader Bill Shorten and former prime minister Tony Abbott respectively, have written to parents and staff arguing the Catholic Church’s understanding of marriage stretches beyond procreation. It comes days after Melbourne Archbishop Denis Hart urged Catholics to vote against change in the upcoming postal survey on gay marriage for the “health and future” of society.
    Archbishop Hart believes same sex marriage could weaken society. “I do believe that marriage between a man and woman and family are the bedrock of society and if we follow that through then it could weaken us,” he told radio 3AW on Tuesday.




    But Xavier College rector, Father Chris Middleton warns there is a “real disconnect” between the church’s opposition to gay civil marriage and the attitudes of young people.
    The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it. (Osho)

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  12. #17
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    Default Re: Marriage Equality is a Call to Action for the non-Religious

    There is still a big chance, in fact quite likely chance, that the survey will be quashed by the high court. All this time and money spent for nothing! In a better world, that might force Malcolm's hand in favour of a conscience vote in parliament - in this world it'll likely mean we must wait for the next election.

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  14. #18
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    well folks, this debate has now been put to rest.

    http://www.tennessean.com/story/news...age/611756001/

    Evangelical leaders issue Nashville Statement, a 'Christian manifesto' on human sexuality



    A national coalition of more than 150 evangelical leaders signed a new statement affirming their beliefs on human sexuality, including that marriage is between one man and one woman and approval of "homosexual immorality" is sinful.
    The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood released the list of 14 beliefs, referred to as the Nashville Statement, on Tuesday morning. The statement says the evangelical coalition who signed it are responding to an increasingly post-Christian, Western culture that thinks they can change God's design for humans.
    The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it. (Osho)

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  16. #19
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    Default Re: Marriage Equality is a Call to Action for the non-Religious

    Quote Stub King said View Post
    well folks, this debate has now been put to rest.

    http://www.tennessean.com/story/news...age/611756001/

    Evangelical leaders issue Nashville Statement, a 'Christian manifesto' on human sexuality



    A national coalition of more than 150 evangelical leaders signed a new statement affirming their beliefs on human sexuality, including that marriage is between one man and one woman and approval of "homosexual immorality" is sinful.
    The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood released the list of 14 beliefs, referred to as the Nashville Statement, on Tuesday morning. The statement says the evangelical coalition who signed it are responding to an increasingly post-Christian, Western culture that thinks they can change God's design for humans.
    Yeah and they say they deny marriage is a contract. So that kills all marriages of any kind under the law if their view was to hold sway.
    "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
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    Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

    History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.

  17. #20
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    Default Re: Marriage Equality is a Call to Action for the non-Religious

    Conflating marriage equality with education is patently ridiculous. The 'no' crowd seem to be trying to say that SSM will precipitate a public school curriculum that teachers kids how to be gay (demonstrating a deep ignorance of our understanding of human sexuality), encourage cross-dressing (wtf?) and teaching kids that it's ok to be gay. Putting aside the last one, (which is as it should be and already happens), this is just nonsense, obviously.

    But what i find so obsequious and underhanded about the 'no' ad, is the blatant obfuscation at play. Rather than just state their case they engage in modern emotive advertising techniques to promote their belief. The truth is, the 'no' is opposed to SSM because the bible says so. So, why can't these good xtians find the fortitude to just say that? Is it because it sounds ridiculous? Are they embarrassed? Do they think that if they honestly stated their case it would be dismissed out of hand? What a bunch of fucking cowards. To scared to openly stand by their own convictions. Pathetic.

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