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Thread: New Facebook for less sucky internet atheists

  1. #1
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    Default New Facebook for less sucky internet atheists

    sparked by discussion in http://atheistfoundation.org.au/foru...ad.php?t=29950

    Imagine there really is a god and she is on our side. However she has limited herself to only performing a limited number of miracles. So we ask her to invent a completely new facebook thing. She can give it super AI and ultimate filtering and whatever.

    So, describe this new facebook. What does it do? How do people interact on it? How are their interactions moderated? How are trust structures built? Are any commercial interests satisfied? Does it have a particular political/cultural bias? Does it have a methodological requirement?
    "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

    History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.

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    Default Re: New Facebook for less sucky internet atheists

    Okay...
    1. It's got clear rules regarding discrimination, and a clear definition of that.
    EJB

    Iím not one of the dead ones yet. - Ms Fishie.


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    Default Re: New Facebook for less sucky internet atheists

    Be careful what you wish for, here be dragons and unintended consequences and slippy slopes and stuff.

    Facebook Vows to Fight ISIS, Al Qaeda Terrorism With Artificial Intelligence

    Might you, while in general I like having this stuff out there, coz it brings it out into the light where it can be seen for what it is, sometimes the internet is very big and the light seems small and feeble.
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."Philip K. Dick


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    Default Re: New Facebook for less sucky internet atheists

    Quote The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
    Okay...
    1. It's got clear rules regarding discrimination, and a clear definition of that.
    So we could have a stab at those rules and many discussions.

    How would the magic facebook go about dealing with infringements and, importantly, noticing when the rules may be wrong or need their boundaries adjusted?
    "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

    History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.

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    Default Re: New Facebook for less sucky internet atheists

    Quote Loki said View Post
    Be careful what you wish for, here be dragons and unintended consequences and slippy slopes and stuff.

    Facebook Vows to Fight ISIS, Al Qaeda Terrorism With Artificial Intelligence

    Might you, while in general I like having this stuff out there, coz it brings it out into the light where it can be seen for what it is, sometimes the internet is very big and the light seems small and feeble.
    Absolutely agree. The errors need to be considered and mitigated. How do we set boundaries on the magic facebooks abilities? Should humans be in the loop? Which ones? How are they selected?
    "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

    History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.

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    Default Re: New Facebook for less sucky internet atheists

    Quote DanDare said View Post
    Quote The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
    Okay...
    1. It's got clear rules regarding discrimination, and a clear definition of that.
    So we could have a stab at those rules and many discussions.

    How would the magic facebook go about dealing with infringements and, importantly, noticing when the rules may be wrong or need their boundaries adjusted?
    We could define acceptable/unacceptable means, language, and target of attack.

    Acceptable means - dissection of what is wrong with <standpoint>.
    Unacceptable means - "<standpoint> sucks and is for losers" or equivalent.
    Difference being substantiation of claim.

    Target - person = unacceptable, standpoint = acceptable.

    Language - this one is nuanced, but mods here seem to manage okay.


    There's a start.
    EJB

    Iím not one of the dead ones yet. - Ms Fishie.


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    Default Re: New Facebook for less sucky internet atheists

    Quote DanDare said View Post
    Quote Loki said View Post
    Be careful what you wish for, here be dragons and unintended consequences and slippy slopes and stuff.

    Facebook Vows to Fight ISIS, Al Qaeda Terrorism With Artificial Intelligence

    Might you, while in general I like having this stuff out there, coz it brings it out into the light where it can be seen for what it is, sometimes the internet is very big and the light seems small and feeble.
    Absolutely agree. The errors need to be considered and mitigated. How do we set boundaries on the magic facebooks abilities? Should humans be in the loop? Which ones? How are they selected?
    Gotta be people at one end of it: algorithms can be gamed.

    Perhaps random assigment, peer review, and random supervisors (themselves subject to peer review) would be the go, even if algorithms are used to identify cases for examination.
    EJB

    Iím not one of the dead ones yet. - Ms Fishie.


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    Default Re: New Facebook for less sucky internet atheists

    As much as I detest bigots, there are going to be plonkers that join any group. I got banned at the Atheist Plus forum in short order, just because I politely questioned a Mod.

    As a white privileged male with little personal experience of racism, sexism etc, I don't feel qualified to say to folks who experience the nasty attentions of bigots to "suck it up". That said, if you are going to have open debate, the these subjects have to be discussed.

    And it is all very well to say attack the idea, but not the person, but the sad fact is that most people feel ownership over ideology. In a certain way, the ideology IS the person. It shouldn't be that way, but often it is. Not that most people can't change, we know they can. But some people really don't. For those few I think one can be personal, and say: "fuck off you piece of shit".

    But for most folks, raising awareness, followed by gentle, polite and reasonable argument may be enough.

    Some people, especially privileged white males, will tend to press what they see as an advantage, if you try and meet them "half-way" and season with them. Any "concession" by you will be seen as weakness, and exploited in an attack. This may include the "concession" of allowing bigots to join a forum in the first pace!

    I don't think one can form perfect rules that can't be "hacked" by trolls, whether they be bigots or just childish trolls who troll for "kicks".

    Admin/mod staff should be recruited with various traits in mind:-

    1. Technical competence of forum admin

    2. A history of positive contributions to the forum. Such as welcoming and mentoring new members, posting items of interest to the community, etc, etc.

    3. Few if any serious infractions.

    4. "Stand-down" periods, or tours of duty, where admins/mods serve say, six months on, six months off. This gives them an opportunity to act as ordinary members. If expertise, is an issue, then such tours should be staggered to avoid periods where the forum is run by inexperienced staff.

    5. A certain proportion of forum members might be voted in. Say half as voted in by the current staff, and the other half voted in by popular vote of forum members. Probably both candidates and voting members be AFA members also.

    6. Members of staff have the right to present a minority opinion.

    I think most of these measures I being implemented right now, except for the voting and stand-downs.

    In other words, I don't think our system is broke. Not "puppy-perfect" either, but not broke.

    Of course this is about facebook, and I don't frequent such dark in dingy corners of the internet, but the principles should be applicable anywhere.
    Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

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