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Thread: 20 million people without food

  1. #11
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    Default Re: 20 million people without food

    Quote pipbarber said View Post
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-39238808

    This needs a thread.

    I dont know what to say and i dont know what to do. I dont have much cash to give and i dont even know where i'd give it.

    Does anyone have any information or suggestions regarding what is the best thing for individual people her in oz to do?
    Like what?
    The phrase, "every ripple in the creates its own wave" sounds nice, but really... What can one do to help? (Basically SFA).

    I hear similar pleading from some friends who have guilt about the impoverished in (pick one), India, South America, south east Asia, etc... And that we have a moral responsibility to help those in need.
    As I do not recall siring those masses, I do not feel personally responsible for them.

    There is mass migration to Europe, which seems correlated with chaos in Africa (and chaos in the Middle East).
    There should be plenty of worthy causes closer to home... in Australia. This could be even be doing some good in Melbourne.

    Or the maybe it is just that the good lord just works in strange ways to bring population in alignment with resources?

    If you really feel you need to make an impact, then I would suggest a funding a well, as water is one of their main problems.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: 20 million people without food

    There is a whole range of related and linked problems and water is certainly one of them. Violence and the violence and dysfunction of the international system is another.
    "I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins

  3. #13
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    Default Re: 20 million people without food

    Many of the problems in Africa, the Middle East and other parts of the world today are a direct result of decades or even centuries of meddling and manipulation and outright exploitation by the western world. And while we (and our allies and our strategic rivals) continue to meddle and intervene and even slaughter when it suits our purposes, we cannot simply claim that their problems are of their own making.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: 20 million people without food

    Quote 142857 said View Post
    Many of the problems in Africa, the Middle East and other parts of the world today are a direct result of decades or even centuries of meddling and manipulation and outright exploitation by the western world. And while we (and our allies and our strategic rivals) continue to meddle and intervene and even slaughter when it suits our purposes, we cannot simply claim that their problems are of their own making.
    Indeed, and because the African Union [which does need help to stabilise the situation] know that "The West" have been less than honest brokers with a long history of exploitation, any genuine attempts to help tend to be viewed with [understandable] suspicion and mostly rejected. Not that the former Soviet Union Warsaw Pact mob did any better, or indeed the PRC at present. So many proxy wars between colonial powers and little [proxy] "hot wars" during the [so-called] cold war between the USA and USSR, give African little if any choice in getting AID without strings attached.

    I suppose that is why Robert Mugabe has lasted so long. I think most folks would recognise the guy is a bastard, but at least he is their bastard, and not some foreign bastard.
    Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: 20 million people without food

    Quote Darwinsbulldog said View Post
    I suppose that is why Robert Mugabe has lasted so long. I think most folks would recognise the guy is a bastard, but at least he is their bastard, and not some foreign bastard.
    Very aptly put DB, it's far better to be oppressed by someone you know than someone you don't know because knowing why someone is oppressing you is important! That foreign bugger from overseas, nobody has any idea what he's after, but the boss here, he's just another bloody ******* (insert name of different tribe here).

    In Africa it's all tribalism because cutting them all up into different nations didn't really make it go away, it's just they could all focus on johnny foreigner as the enemy, take johnny foreigner out of the picture and it all reverts to tribes even of they are part of the same country.

    Europe went though that a long time ago and sorted it out, sort of, but we marched in and never gave Africa a chance to sort it out. Yes I know I am a cynical bugger. The question we need to ask ourselves is, do we still owe them?
    From the mouth of a seven year old: "When you're you're dead, you don't go anywhere!"

  6. #16
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    Default Re: 20 million people without food

    Quote stevebrooks said View Post
    Very aptly put DB, it's far better to be oppressed by someone you know than someone you don't know because knowing why someone is oppressing you is important! That foreign bugger from overseas, nobody has any idea what he's after, but the boss here, he's just another bloody ******* (insert name of different tribe here).

    In Africa it's all tribalism because cutting them all up into different nations didn't really make it go away, it's just they could all focus on johnny foreigner as the enemy, take johnny foreigner out of the picture and it all reverts to tribes even of they are part of the same country.

    Europe went though that a long time ago and sorted it out, sort of, but we marched in and never gave Africa a chance to sort it out. Yes I know I am a cynical bugger. The question we need to ask ourselves is, do we still owe them?
    I think we do still owe them, despite them being a diverse range of peoples. But even if we did not, I think the moral imperative is to help them, though I doubt many would want to put "skin" [blood] in the game. Because they are fellow humans, so it must be done.

    How is another question. If the atrocities that happen in Africa happened in Europe, the mobilisation of troops and political will would be lightning fast, but since these are just black folks, there is no political will, unless profits or valuable resources are involved, then of course, political will is found by magic [eg Gulf Wars One and Two, because oil]. They were certainly not about "Freedom" or "Democracy" or the West Would have invaded Saudi Arabia ages ago.

    Not to forget religion of course. Several brands of Islam and Christian influences further insured divisions and strife within Africa, and since a lot of aid comes with religious ties [explicit or implicit], that further poisons the well.
    Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: 20 million people without food

    Quote Darwinsbulldog said View Post
    Quote 142857 said View Post
    Many of the problems in Africa, the Middle East and other parts of the world today are a direct result of decades or even centuries of meddling and manipulation and outright exploitation by the western world. And while we (and our allies and our strategic rivals) continue to meddle and intervene and even slaughter when it suits our purposes, we cannot simply claim that their problems are of their own making.
    Indeed, and because the African Union [which does need help to stabilise the situation] know that "The West" have been less than honest brokers with a long history of exploitation, any genuine attempts to help tend to be viewed with [understandable] suspicion and mostly rejected. Not that the former Soviet Union Warsaw Pact mob did any better, or indeed the PRC at present. So many proxy wars between colonial powers and little [proxy] "hot wars" during the [so-called] cold war between the USA and USSR, give African little if any choice in getting AID without strings attached.

    I suppose that is why Robert Mugabe has lasted so long. I think most folks would recognise the guy is a bastard, but at least he is their bastard, and not some foreign bastard.
    But Africans don't see him as theirs
    "I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins

  8. #18
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    Default Re: 20 million people without food

    Quote wadaye said View Post
    But Africans don't see him as theirs
    Maybe not, but I am willing to assume they would be reluctant to allow Europeans forces to remove him. Foreign forces are always removing African leaders, especially those that threatened their business interests. Generally, they didn't give a flying fuck if the leader was nice guy or tyrant.
    Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

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  10. #19
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    Default Re: 20 million people without food

    Quote Darwinsbulldog said View Post
    Quote wadaye said View Post
    But Africans don't see him as theirs
    Maybe not, but I am willing to assume they would be reluctant to allow Europeans forces to remove him. Foreign forces are always removing African leaders, especially those that threatened their business interests. Generally, they didn't give a flying fuck if the leader was nice guy or tyrant.
    There are some pretty bad things done by the ruling tribe militia to other black people.
    In these types of matters there are always surprising alliances. But of course war itself causes a lot of death of innocents. .

    But back to the main issue it strikes me that the starving people in Yemen Somalia Nigeria and South Sudan are not the subject of sufficient international concern to enough for them because they are firstly poor, they are Arab or African, and many of them are also Muslim.
    "I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins

  11. #20
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    Default Re: 20 million people without food

    I feel very bad about this. The videos from Yemen of children and adults starving to death are very tragic. It annoys me that our media and politicians take absolutely zero notice of this.
    "I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins

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