Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Thread: Theistic inclinations

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,617

    Default Theistic inclinations

    Hello all,

    I would like to inform all that I have theistic inclinations. When I apply rationalism, I am clearly an atheist. When I let go of rationalism and let my emotions run, I feel lightened up with thoughts about god.

    Regardless whether god exists or not, it is good to live with imagination at times. These times, my imagination includes god.

    Deliberate rationality leaves me depressed and feeling empty. Ideally, I'll limit use rationality to only times when I am handling scientific issues, addressing humanitarian issues and dealing with the reality.

    I hope that this can spark a good discussion,

    Regards

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    19,161

    Default Re: Theistic inclinations

    Quote Azurisan21 said View Post
    Hello all,

    I would like to inform all that I have theistic inclinations. When I apply rationalism, I am clearly an atheist. When I let go of rationalism and let my emotions run, I feel lightened up with thoughts about god.

    Regardless whether god exists or not, it is good to live with imagination at times. These times, my imagination includes god.

    Deliberate rationality leaves me depressed and feeling empty. Ideally, I'll limit use rationality to only times when I am handling scientific issues, addressing humanitarian issues and dealing with the reality.

    I hope that this can spark a good discussion,

    Regards
    All I can recall from my relationship with god was being a puppet. Stand proud human! You are lucky just being alive! You have one of the most complex brains in the known universe! You and seven billion others ARE gods, real gods. But are you up for the challenge? God-like powers suggest god-like ethics. In other words, we are obliged to be as good as we can be. We can repay the countless generations of living things that came before us, for they made it possible for you and I to exist NOW, at this exciting time. The STARS are within our reach. The only thing we need to get there is to get along. What can be more glorious than a silly species of apes discovering how we and the universe came to be, despite our schizophrenia, our paranoia, and our aggression. But we have redeeming features too, our curiosity, our capacity to love and care. We need to focus on that, and the future, not the past. religion is the past, the dark. Greet the dawn with joy, and seize the day! Carpe diem! It won't last long.
    Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

  3. Like button 142857 liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,617

    Default Re: Theistic inclinations

    I disagree with you on the idea of neglecting the past. History is a vital tool if we are to understand the present better and devise ways to progress into the future.

  5. #4

    Default Re: Theistic inclinations

    Nothing wrong with imagination as long as it does not cause anxiety to you and you do not impose yours upon others. There is a famous
    quote from Einstein : imagination is more important than knowledge. So imagine away Azu. Free your mind. Stretch it as far as it can go
    A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    36

    Default Re: Theistic inclinations

    Quote Azurisan21 said View Post
    Deliberate rationality leaves me depressed and feeling empty. Ideally, I'll limit use rationality to only times when I am handling scientific issues, addressing humanitarian issues and dealing with the reality.
    It's often said that rationality is devoid of meaning or substance, and that we need spirituality. But noone can say what spirituality is.

    It's spirituality that is devoid of substance and meaning, it means nothing.

    Imagination is different though, and I think is the sister of Rationality.

    But imagining what is could be is very different from imagining what is.

    So if we feel empty without god, doesn't that give us a reason to find meaning? True meaning? Doesn't that feeling drive us to explore the universe and discover our commonality with not only all life forms on Earth, but the very stars themselves.

    In my view, the emptiness of atheism is illusionary and dissipates on reflection.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    19,161

    Default Re: Theistic inclinations

    Quote Azurisan21 said View Post
    I disagree with you on the idea of neglecting the past. History is a vital tool if we are to understand the present better and devise ways to progress into the future.
    I didn't say neglect the past. Paying attention to what happened in the past can help us learn not to make mistakes in the future. I was urging people live in the present, and look to the future, rather than try to live in the past.
    Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    3,129

    Default Re: Theistic inclinations

    Don't suppose you're a Nick Cave fan Az? Regardless, nick is an atheist but in the world of his song writing he is a theist that takes inspiration from the Old Testament. His world of imagination is dripping in religion but not his real world. Perhaps you could indulge your theistic tendencies in the worlds of your own creation without it having the slightest contest with rationality.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,417

    Default Re: Theistic inclinations

    I was raised Catholic but realized it was bunkum by the time I was around 9 years of age. I was a moderately intelligent kid but not super smart or anything like that, so it never occurred to me that most of the adults I knew were actually sincere in their belief.

    And, of course, I had limited knowledge of science and philosophy at that age (still do to a large extent) so I would lie awake for hours wondering how the universe could come to be without the mythical creator God, and whether it was possible that "God" of some sort existed as a kind of property of the universe that grew and evolved with the universe. I guess it was some kind of primitive, half-baked and naive pantheism.

    For most of my adult life I have simply been an atheist. For many years I called myself an agnostic - but I was an agnostic who lacked belief in God, essentially a weak atheist all the way along.

    As I have grown older I realize more and more that we humans are spiritual creatures. Not spiritual in a supernatural sense, but spiritual in the sense that we are drawn to beliefs that give us a sense of being connected with the purpose of the universe, beliefs that can make us feel that we are more than just a sack of bones and organs and water.

    And sometimes now I consciously let go of my skeptical side and try to experience the spiritual as if it were actually real. And it can be liberating, even with my skepticism gnawing away at the back of my mind (with my spiritual side telling it to butt out for a while).


    But at the same time... looking up at the night sky and imagining something spiritual connecting me somehow to everything else in the universe, or imagining that I am an immortal being who will reconnect with the creator of all of this when my body dies.... doesn't even have 1% of the WOW factor that Puppy alluded to earlier. What we actually are, what we have just recently started to understand about the universe that we exist in, and what we may still learn and discover.

    I was just recently watching The Human Universe (with Brian Cox) and he was talking about much the same thing: that out of all the billions of stars in our galaxy, it really appears likely that we are currently the only technologically advanced organisms. And what that means.
    Last edited by 142857; 24th February 2017 at 12:42 PM.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    19,161

    Default Re: Theistic inclinations

    Quote 142857 said View Post
    I was raised Catholic but realized it was bunkum by the time I was around 9 years of age. I was a moderately intelligent kid but not super smart or anything like that, so it never occurred to me that most of the adults I knew were actually sincere in their belief.

    And, of course, I had limited knowledge of science and philosophy at that age (still do to a large extent) so I would lie awake for hours wondering how the universe could come to be without the mythical creator God, and whether it was possible that "God" of some sort existed as a kind of property of the universe that grew and evolved with the universe. I guess it was some kind of primitive, half-baked and naive pantheism.

    For most of my adult life I have simply been an atheist. For many years I called myself an agnostic - but I was an agnostic who lacked belief in God, essentially a weak atheist all the way along.

    As I have grown older I realize more and more that we humans are spiritual creatures. Not spiritual in a supernatural sense, but spiritual in the sense that we are drawn to beliefs that give us a sense of being connected with the purpose of the universe, beliefs that can make us feel that we are more than just a sack of bones and organs and water.

    And sometimes now I consciously let go of my skeptical side and try to experience the spiritual as if it were actually real. And it can be liberating, even with my skepticism gnawing away at the back of my mind (with my spiritual side telling it to butt out for a while).


    But at the same time... looking up at the night sky and imagining something spiritual connecting me somehow to everything else in the universe, or imagining that I am an immortal being who will reconnect with the creator of all of this when my body dies.... doesn't even have 1% of the WOW factor that Puppy alluded to earlier. What we actually are, what we have just recently started to understand about the universe that we exist in, and what we may still learn and discover.

    I was just recently watching The Human Universe (with Brian Cox) and he was talking about much the same thing: that out of all the billions of stars in our galaxy, it really appears likely that we are currently the only technologically advanced organisms. And what that means.
    Religions have tried [often with superb success] to sell us creations stories. Understandable, as we are story-telling apes. They will often sell it as "The greatest story ever told". Bollocks!

    The greatest narrative ever told is the on-going one by science, which actually makes testable, falsifiable, consistent, evidence-based narratives [verbal or mathematical or both].

    And what awesome stories they are! Evolution! The chemical origins of life! Quantum Mechanics! Knowing what probably happened 10 - 43 seconds after the Big Bang! And a thousand more wonders! A million, a billion more stories that actually make sense.

    I think Cox is being overly pessimistic in that vid [to be fair he made it before some of the recent discoveries were known]. The recent discovery of 7 planets which are basically Earth-like within 40 light years changes all that. It means that the "Goldilocks Zone" is a lot less rare than we thought. In our galaxy, and millions of others. But we may never have a conversation with an intelligent E.T. But almost certainly, these discoveries change the numbers we can put into the Drake equation so that the chances of life, including intelligent throughout the Cosmos is so high it is almost a certainty.

    From studies of the chemical origin of life, we know that the requirements are not all that difficult. Sticky problems like chirality-solved. Ribozymes, self-assembling molecules, the list is awesome!

    The biggest problem by far for the existence of creator-gods is causality violation. If god was the first cause, what caused god? Natural explanations for the origins of the universe and life are bottom-up, and don't involve causality problems. That god-shit is top-down, a non-starter for sure.

    I think even many scientists don't quite understand the power of natural processes and complexity to produce form and function. Not just natural selection in biology, but natural systems in general to produce designoid and functional objects.
    When faced with such awesome creative power it is hard not to revert to some atavistic notion that some kind of mind must control and create it.

    But as always, this is the human tendency to observe function, and assume purpose. To deem that there must be a designer, for something that might appear, at first glace, to be designed by mind.

    A Creator-god, then the universe? I think not. About as likely as me casting a magic spell, hopping onto a broomstick, and flying to the moon! Why? Because it contradicts everything we have found out about nature through science! It is just not credible that a powerful creator-god could consistently be able to fly below the radar of science, even if science doesn't look for it directly.

    The other way, a universe without mind, creating a universe that contains minds, makes more sense. We don't know the whole story yet, and may never know all the details, but what we know already is entirely consistent with such a universe in which we live.

    Purpose? We can make our own!
    Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

  11. Like button 142857 liked this post
  12. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,417

    Default Re: Theistic inclinations

    Quote Puppy said
    I think Cox is being overly pessimistic in that vid [to be fair he made it before some of the recent discoveries were known]. The recent discovery of 7 planets which are basically Earth-like within 40 light years changes all that. It means that the "Goldilocks Zone" is a lot less rare than we thought. In our galaxy, and millions of others. But we may never have a conversation with an intelligent E.T. But almost certainly, these discoveries change the numbers we can put into the Drake equation so that the chances of life, including intelligent throughout the Cosmos is so high it is almost a certainty.
    My takeaway from what Cox said was that it appears likely that simple, single-celled life is very common, as it arose on Earth pretty much as early as it was possible for it to arise.

    Multi-celled life, on the other hand, may have taken billions of years more to develop and appears to have only happened once. Whatever caused it to happen seems to have been an extreme long-shot.

    Further, he quoted another scientist who had guesstimated that a technologically advanced civilization around ten million years to progress to starhopping and making a significant footprint on their section of the galaxy.

    The fact that we have yet to detect such a civilization may indicate that such civilizations are exceedingly rare. We may even be alone in this galaxy as a technologically advanced civilization.


    I really like the way you said that we are story-telling apes, and that the stories we are uncovering are far more interesting than anything we could have made up. I think the idea that I descended from a fish is far more interesting and exciting than the idea that a sky wizard made me in his own image.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •