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Thread: Brisbane City Council Petition: No prayers in Council meetings

  1. #1
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    Default Brisbane City Council Petition: No prayers in Council meetings

    http://www.epetitions.brisbane.qld.g...n/view/pid/383

    This petition raises concern that a prayer is recited during Brisbane City Council meetings.
    - The Queensland Constitution does not state that Queensland is a Christian state.
    - Our secular system of government requires separation of church and state.
    - Prayers during Council meetings are imposing the beliefs of one religion in an elected public forum. This compromises government impartiality.
    - Ratepayers don't expect to pay elected representatives to say prayers during Council meetings.
    - A Christian prayer may be inappropriate to Councillors, Council staff, and citizens of other faiths, or no faith.
    - Census results show the decrease of Christianity and an increase of non-Christian religions in Australia. Why does Council publicly favour Christian over non-Christian religions?
    - Census results show increasing numbers of Australians have no religion. Only 5% of Australians regularly attend church services and less than 30% of weddings are performed in churches.
    - The Canadian Supreme Court in 2015 ruled unanimously that Saguenay Council reciting a prayer during official meetings is unlawful. The judgement said the state must "remain neutral" in matters of religious belief. "This neutrality requires that the state neither favour nor hinder any particular belief, and the same holds true for non-belief. It requires that the state abstain from taking any position and thus avoid adhering to a particular belief."

    Your petitioners request that Council remove religious prayers and references from all Council business, thereby confirming government impartiality in matters of religious belief.
    "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

    History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Brisbane City Council Petition: No prayers in Council meetings

    Thank's for the list of points. I've been meaning to approach my local council with this concept. They start every meeting with a prayer.
    Quite ridiculous in a secular society that the representatives of all the people should decide to speak to one particular invisible sky wizard. Insulting and disengaging to all others that happen to believe in a different invisible sky wizard or wizards.
    Of course as an atheist it is just plain embarrassing as well as not getting the meeting off to a good start by asking something that has no evidence for existing to assist with matters of reality.

    Unfortunately I wouldn't get a petition going here as it would involve explaining to thousands of people what nonsense this prayer stuff is. At least in Brisbane there are many who get it.

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  4. #3

    Default Re: Brisbane City Council Petition: No prayers in Council meetings

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...-unlawful.html

    This happens over here as well. What some fail to understand is that a public body like a council should not be holding prayers before meetings
    Those who want to pray can do so in their own time and not when they are supposed to be doing the job which they were actually elected to do
    A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN

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  6. #4
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    Default Re: Brisbane City Council Petition: No prayers in Council meetings

    I wish these damn Christians would pay more attention to their book:
    Matt 6: 5,6
    5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
    Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so. Robert A. Heinlein

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  8. #5
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    Default Re: Brisbane City Council Petition: No prayers in Council meetings

    To be objective about this, we need to empirically test behaviours against frequency of prayers. Right now, they behave in parliament in a manner that would shame most pre-schoolers! Just imagine how they might behave if there was no prayer at all, and they didn't have the delusion of a sky-daddy taking their candy away when they acted like spoilt children!
    Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

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    Default Re: Brisbane City Council Petition: No prayers in Council meetings

    DB, one could to a prayer test in front of them.
    A coin toss, 100 times. Ask them all to pray for heads before every coin toss.
    Even if it's 51/49 to heads, it still shows that prayer doesn't work an as as much as any 50/50 guess 'works'.
    "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, don't rely on your own intelligence" Proverbs 3:5
    Bible Jesus "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them, bring them here and kill them in front of me." Luke 19:27
    "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Matthew 5:17
    "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves." Leviticus 24:44

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    Default Re: Brisbane City Council Petition: No prayers in Council meetings

    Quote Iron Chariots said View Post
    DB, one could to a prayer test in front of them.
    A coin toss, 100 times. Ask them all to pray for heads before every coin toss.
    Even if it's 51/49 to heads, it still shows that prayer doesn't work an as as much as any 50/50 guess 'works'.
    God specifically tolds me he would not be scientificallistically tested!
    Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

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  12. #8
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    Default Re: Brisbane City Council Petition: No prayers in Council meetings

    "Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need. Malachi 3:10

    The lawd fibs, oh lawdy lawdy
    "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, don't rely on your own intelligence" Proverbs 3:5
    Bible Jesus "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them, bring them here and kill them in front of me." Luke 19:27
    "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Matthew 5:17
    "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves." Leviticus 24:44

  13. #9
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    Default Re: Brisbane City Council Petition: No prayers in Council meetings

    Quote Darwinsbulldog said View Post
    To be objective about this, we need to empirically test behaviours against frequency of prayers. Right now, they behave in parliament in a manner that would shame most pre-schoolers! Just imagine how they might behave if there was no prayer at all, and they didn't have the delusion of a sky-daddy taking their candy away when they acted like spoilt children!
    Several hypothesis to be tested:

    prayer causes bad behaviour

    both prayer and bad behaviour are symptoms of an underlying cause

    There is a difference in behaviour if there is or is not prayer

    This only deals with the pollies and their behaviour of course. We need to eventually examine the reactions and behaviours of the electorate, and the quality of the deliberation in and out of parliament. Its a good project. I can have a lab set up for a few million and we can get cracking!
    "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

    History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.

  14. #10
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    Default Re: Brisbane City Council Petition: No prayers in Council meetings

    Quote DanDare said View Post
    Several hypothesis to be tested:

    prayer causes bad behaviour

    both prayer and bad behaviour are symptoms of an underlying cause

    There is a difference in behaviour if there is or is not prayer

    This only deals with the pollies and their behaviour of course. We need to eventually examine the reactions and behaviours of the electorate, and the quality of the deliberation in and out of parliament. Its a good project. I can have a lab set up for a few million and we can get cracking!
    No, no no, prayer prevents bad behaviour! It is pretty hard to kill or war while in the Lotus position, on your knees, or with your ass in the air, chanting.
    Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

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