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Thread: Atheists, not atheism

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Atheists, not atheism

    Quote Svadifari said View Post
    Hmmmmm. Seems to me the way to do that is by not actually doing stuff.
    Well, you can enjoy your non belief right up to the time someone chops of your head for heresy or blasphemy. Of course, you can pretend under such extreme circumstances and save you head, but to me that is sub-optimal.

    The best way to "worship" atheism is to be involved in the creation and maintenance of a truly secular state, which has the added of being highly sell-able to the more reasonable souls to be found among theists. Then it is more for science to be safe, education to be safe, public policy and laws might become more reasonable and fair.

    Besides, I am dog, and therefore must be obeyed! :-)
    Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Atheists, not atheism

    For me personally, I don't like to construct binary notions about the world and the thoughts of the people who inhabit it because they tend to be far removed from reality.

    Certainly, there is a skeptic/mystic paradigm, but there's a clear gradient in there in which even the most professional scientist may reach occasionally to the superstitious or unknown while surmounting difficulties in their life, and even the most blinkered religionist finds wonder in the discoveries of humans inquiring into nature.

    I don't think it takes anything to be an atheist aside from not believing in gods - I don't think an atheist has to be a monist, or a skeptic, or anti-mysticism. I think there are plenty of ways to be atheist, and I think the journey into skeptical empiricism is not obligatory for atheists anymore than it is for theists. It's an ideal, not a reality.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Atheists, not atheism

    Quote Spearthrower said View Post
    For me personally, I don't like to construct binary notions about the world and the thoughts of the people who inhabit it because they tend to be far removed from reality.

    Certainly, there is a skeptic/mystic paradigm, but there's a clear gradient in there in which even the most professional scientist may reach occasionally to the superstitious or unknown while surmounting difficulties in their life, and even the most blinkered religionist finds wonder in the discoveries of humans inquiring into nature.

    I don't think it takes anything to be an atheist aside from not believing in gods - I don't think an atheist has to be a monist, or a skeptic, or anti-mysticism. I think there are plenty of ways to be atheist, and I think the journey into skeptical empiricism is not obligatory for atheists anymore than it is for theists. It's an ideal, not a reality.
    I was not stereotyping atheists or theists. At least that was not my intention. Perhaps I am being unrealistic as to how motivated people are or should be, to the goal of intellectual honesty and consistency in their lives.

    Perhaps I have no perspective. I have too much horror, too much contact with schizophrenics without insight. Also, the tragedy of dementia. That loss of reason, or the perversion of reason, is the sum of all fears for me.
    Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Atheists, not atheism

    Quote Darwinsbulldog said View Post
    I was not stereotyping atheists or theists. At least that was not my intention. Perhaps I am being unrealistic as to how motivated people are or should be, to the goal of intellectual honesty and consistency in their lives.
    Sorry, yeah I didn't mean stereotyping, I meant oversimplifying. All people can't fit into just 2 box on any issue.

    One thing I might say is that just because I value X, it doesn't mean that others need to see it that way, but it doesn't mean they're not motivated or curious or anything like that.



    Quote Darwinsbulldog said View Post
    Perhaps I have no perspective. I have too much horror, too much contact with schizophrenics without insight. Also, the tragedy of dementia. That loss of reason, or the perversion of reason, is the sum of all fears for me.
    It is for my loved ones because you lose them but they're still there. For me personally, I am not afraid of dementia at all as victims often fall deeper into the spell and don't know they're afflicted, only those around them do. Personally, I think a really active mind, one that's always planning and looking ahead, is a mind much more resistant to the travails of ageing.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Atheists, not atheism

    Quote Spearthrower said View Post
    Sorry, yeah I didn't mean stereotyping, I meant oversimplifying. All people can't fit into just 2 box on any issue.

    One thing I might say is that just because I value X, it doesn't mean that others need to see it that way, but it doesn't mean they're not motivated or curious or anything like that.

    It is for my loved ones because you lose them but they're still there. For me personally, I am not afraid of dementia at all as victims often fall deeper into the spell and don't know they're afflicted, only those around them do. Personally, I think a really active mind, one that's always planning and looking ahead, is a mind much more resistant to the travails of ageing.
    When I became atheist with a little help from my friends, several things happened. First I was relieved that I was not terminally stupid. I saw so many scientists that I admired: Francis Collins, Francisco J. Ayala, Simon Conway Morris, Kenneth R. Miller, etc, etc that knew god. So despite the mental indigestion the whole idea of god[s] gave me, I just concluded I was too dumb to understand it all. People much smarter than me can be wrong sometimes.

    Second, now that I was confident in the debunking tools I used for god[s], I began to apply to other non-scientific woo. [It also help if one has "soft-compartments"]. I dumped everything I thought was a mind-virus, because I don't like cognitive dissonance, even if I broke a few logical rules to do so. Re-incarnation, angels and shit like that. I suppose I always thought they were bullshit, except I could not apply the tools of science to debunk them, at least not at first.

    Third the relief of being intellectually honest. Or at least trying to be, and often succeeding, although my addiction to tobacco is one suspect area of mine, I am told, although, I don't think I was in error there, as I saw the data, but I understand people wanting proof.

    Fourth abandoning absolutism of any kind, but with particular regard to ethics. With that the total abandonment of absolute belief, absolute realism, etc, etc.

    I found a great deal of contentment and pleasure in being uncertain, of welcoming the limits of predictability. To be content with "working truths", as it were, because that may be the best we can hope for.
    Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifiable hypotheses to destruction.

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