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Thread: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    Quote petrosy said View Post
    So we start putting restrictions on what people can say, no good can come of this. We tell children that ...Sticks and stones may break my bones (but words will never hurt me). Yet when we grow up we don't take the same advice. Where do you draw the line on restricting what people can and can't say? So you heard something that offended you... ok..be offended.
    Around here we use the personal abuse thing for the most part. Disparaging groups of users is kinda icky as well.

    Welcome to the forum petrosy, if you would be so kind, you could start a welcome thread here where we could get to know you a bit better.
    Last edited by wolty; 11th November 2016 at 06:43 PM.
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    The Nizkor Project- Logical Fallacies

    Atheist: n; A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others.
    —Chaz Bufe, The American Heretic’s Dictionary

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    Default Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    Quote Spearthrower said View Post
    Quote 142857 said View Post
    I did a search on AFA on "fuckt**d". Was surprised at how often it gets used. Not as an insult directed at other board members, but certainly at groups or individuals we deem intellectually inferior to ourselves. Just as ableist, just as offensive.
    I could only find a dozen or so.

    For my part, I use that word - not as a concrete, personal noun, but either as an adjective or as an abstract noun as per GM above.

    To me, the word is quite distinct from anything to do with the mental proficiency of a person - it's rather about being obnoxious or arrogantly foolish.

    Of course, I don't use 'retard', 'tard' or 'spastic' or any other words based on someone's disability (not least because I grew up with disabled family and lived with seriously disabled people all my life), nor do I use racial slurs because I think it's ignorant and nasty.

    For me, 'fucktarded' and 'fucktardery' are not related whatsoever to a physical or mental disability - perhaps they are to others, but to me that's not what they signify at all.


    Just out of curiosity, what does fucktarded mean?
    I've always assumed it was a shortened version of fucking retarded. But I could be wrong.



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    Last edited by Mjt; 11th November 2016 at 06:32 PM.
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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    Quote Mjt said View Post
    Quote Spearthrower said View Post
    Quote 142857 said View Post
    I did a search on AFA on "fuckt**d". Was surprised at how often it gets used. Not as an insult directed at other board members, but certainly at groups or individuals we deem intellectually inferior to ourselves. Just as ableist, just as offensive.
    I could only find a dozen or so.

    For my part, I use that word - not as a concrete, personal noun, but either as an adjective or as an abstract noun as per GM above.

    To me, the word is quite distinct from anything to do with the mental proficiency of a person - it's rather about being obnoxious or arrogantly foolish.

    Of course, I don't use 'retard', 'tard' or 'spastic' or any other words based on someone's disability (not least because I grew up with disabled family and lived with seriously disabled people all my life), nor do I use racial slurs because I think it's ignorant and nasty.

    For me, 'fucktarded' and 'fucktardery' are not related whatsoever to a physical or mental disability - perhaps they are to others, but to me that's not what they signify at all.


    Just out of curiosity, what does fucktarded mean?
    I've always assumed it was a shortened version of fucking retarded. But I could be wrong.



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    I assumed it was a derogatory term for someone who was bad at sex.

    '[They] agreed that it was neither possible nor necessary to educate people who never questioned anything.' ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    Quote odd said View Post
    Quote Mjt said View Post
    Quote Spearthrower said View Post
    Quote 142857 said View Post
    I did a search on AFA on "fuckt**d". Was surprised at how often it gets used. Not as an insult directed at other board members, but certainly at groups or individuals we deem intellectually inferior to ourselves. Just as ableist, just as offensive.
    I could only find a dozen or so.

    For my part, I use that word - not as a concrete, personal noun, but either as an adjective or as an abstract noun as per GM above.

    To me, the word is quite distinct from anything to do with the mental proficiency of a person - it's rather about being obnoxious or arrogantly foolish.

    Of course, I don't use 'retard', 'tard' or 'spastic' or any other words based on someone's disability (not least because I grew up with disabled family and lived with seriously disabled people all my life), nor do I use racial slurs because I think it's ignorant and nasty.

    For me, 'fucktarded' and 'fucktardery' are not related whatsoever to a physical or mental disability - perhaps they are to others, but to me that's not what they signify at all.


    Just out of curiosity, what does fucktarded mean?
    I've always assumed it was a shortened version of fucking retarded. But I could be wrong.



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    I assumed it was a derogatory term for someone who was bad at sex.
    Aw crap. Annie calls me that all the time.
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    The Nizkor Project- Logical Fallacies

    Atheist: n; A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others.
    —Chaz Bufe, The American Heretic’s Dictionary

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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    Quote Mjt said View Post
    Just out of curiosity, what does fucktarded mean?
    I've always assumed it was a shortened version of fucking retarded. But I could be wrong.
    Exceedingly obnoxious, arrogantly foolish behavior.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fucktardery *

    That's how I employ it, anyway - I certainly don't use it as anything to do with being retarded as such a comparison wouldn't cross my mind. If I wanted to demean someone's intelligence, it wouldn't be by comparing them to someone with a disability.

    Setting aside the pejorative, I personally find the word 'retard' to sound like an institutional term from the 1950's. Just outdated beyond salvation.

    Of course, this happens continuously. When I was young, my mother's condition was referred to by a name I can no longer recall, all that I remember was that it was changed at some point to being 'handicapped', then that word fell out of use and the term 'disabled' became more common. I think today even that is being challenged.


    *Edit I see the other word there 'fuckwittery' which, to me, is a term of endearment - a very British form of affectionate disdain, sort of like 'bless him'. To me, fuckwittery is a gentler version of fucktardery, which is more serious and castigating.
    Last edited by Spearthrower; 12th November 2016 at 01:17 AM.

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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    Quote SEG said View Post
    Is it too PC now to think that certain mere words can offend and should be avoided to placate the minorities?

    I don't think so. Some people think that words don't hurt people and we should not be dictated to by anyone else trying to tell us what we can and cannot say. I agree that our freedom of speech should not be restrained, unless it can be shown that others have suffered some sort of harm.

    Examples of disability slurs that offend me are retard, (said as REE-tard, not Re-TARD, fucktard, and to a lesser extent, lame. They harm me because my feelings are hurt as I have kids that have mental and physical disabilities. To say that retard means slow and lame means feeble doesn't make me feel any better, especially when the intent is obvious. These are words that have been used to vilify people with intellectual disabilities.

    Is it best to avoid these words in polite conversation? I think so, as other words are available that cause less offense and are more communicative.
    Are these "magic" words and don't really matter as they don't cause any real harm?

    A single letter change may alter their meaning anyway and they are just letters grouped together, so what's the big deal?

    The deal is that these type of words are often used as insults to undermine disabled people and their friends and family. Bullying of the disabled is to be condemned and it is a poor defense to declare, "they're only words, words can't hurt." Words can and do hurt, that's why we have a bullying policy within our schools and workplaces.

    In Australia we have the great benefit of free speech. I'm not demanding that people stop using those type of words, I'm just asking them to consider using more appropriate words. Just because you can say something, it doesn't mean you should.
    SEG, I agree that some words are offensive and it is politically correct to declare them inappropriate in Australia, which is a democratic country with everyone's right to freedom of speech.

    I can understand your sentiments and sensitivity on behalf of your kids with disabilities and special needs.

    However...

    If you can learn to calm down in uncomfortable and offensive situations, be resilient and try to ignore when people use words that you first find offensive and get going with your life - that would be great - it will take time and emotional strengths including toughness, being cool-headed and so on to gather though. If you can't help, then first of all you'd need to negotiate with your friends and anyone your conversational rules to ensure that they do not speak these words when talking to you. I know some people and from my personal experiences that trying to calm down EVERY time can be very stressful and without the release of anger, one can get very internally delirious - it could be a skill though.

    If anyone talks or uses words to other people, not you, it's their business, not yours.

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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    Quote Spearthrower said View Post
    Quote Mjt said View Post
    Just out of curiosity, what does fucktarded mean?
    I've always assumed it was a shortened version of fucking retarded. But I could be wrong.
    Exceedingly obnoxious, arrogantly foolish behavior.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fucktardery *

    That's how I employ it, anyway - I certainly don't use it as anything to do with being retarded as such a comparison wouldn't cross my mind. If I wanted to demean someone's intelligence, it wouldn't be by comparing them to someone with a disability.

    Setting aside the pejorative, I personally find the word 'retard' to sound like an institutional term from the 1950's. Just outdated beyond salvation.

    Of course, this happens continuously. When I was young, my mother's condition was referred to by a name I can no longer recall, all that I remember was that it was changed at some point to being 'handicapped', then that word fell out of use and the term 'disabled' became more common. I think today even that is being challenged.


    *Edit I see the other word there 'fuckwittery' which, to me, is a term of endearment - a very British form of affectionate disdain, sort of like 'bless him'. To me, fuckwittery is a gentler version of fucktardery, which is more serious and castigating.


    But fucktarded is a combination of fuck and retarded yes?
    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/fucktarded


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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    Quote Mjt said View Post
    But fucktarded is a combination of fuck and retarded yes?
    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/fucktarded
    Maybe so, but the word itself isn't related to fucking either!

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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    Quote Spearthrower said View Post
    Quote Mjt said View Post
    But fucktarded is a combination of fuck and retarded yes?
    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/fucktarded
    Maybe so, but the word itself isn't related to fucking either!


    No it's not. The fuck is there to emphasize the retarded I guess.
    Or perhaps the fuck is the offensive bit? And retard is ok?
    I do wonder at what point a word stops being a derogatory term used to describe a group of people, becomes a word used to insult another due to its derogatory meaning, and then becomes ok if the intent of the user, in their eyes, is legitimate. Cos they mean it a certain way.
    Words are funny.


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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    I'm not in favour substituting 'offence' words with portmanteau approximations such as 'The N-word' or, as above, 'The R-word'. It's as if the mere utterance of the term is offensive, whereas it's the context of it's use which is, or can be, distasteful.

    However, in regards to disability issues, I sometimes find my back going up if I think too deeply about words like 'disabled' and 'handicapped' - which to me seem to define someone against the measure of a perceived norm. These words can be used insensitively as well. Consider the words of a former UK Minister, one with responsibility for implementing welfare reforms, when asked to defend his record on 'helping' sick and disabled people off-benefits:

    "I think the figure is now over 220,000, which I believe is the highest figure since records began, in proportionate terms, but the most important point is that we are looking to get that up to the level of normal, non-disabled people who are back in work."
    -- Iain Duncan-Smith : https://www.theguardian.com/politics...normal-commons
    There are also terms like 'incapacity' and 'impairment' which, when used to describe or define a group, seem to reduce people to sets of perceived, if somewhat general deficiencies. Disabled people are often 'symptomised' (is that a word) in this way. Then again, we refer to people and groups by such shorthand all the time, so I try not to get too knit-picky.

    I know someone in a wheelchair who refers to themselves as a 'cripple'. I know someone who lives with the consequences of thalidomide and calls themselves a 'flid'. For my part, as someone who has always had to deal with the symptoms of a progressive congenital eye disorder, I often playfully refer to myself as a 'mutant.' That doesn't mean that I'd find someone shouting "Oi, you fucking Mutant!" at me in the street acceptable though. Again, context, and to some extent intent, goes a long way to determining if a word or phrase, or anything, is offensive, or not.

    Last edited by THWOTH; 12th November 2016 at 12:59 PM. Reason: spellig
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