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Thread: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    Quote pipbarber said View Post
    Isnt the issue just intent? 'Retard' is an adjective and a verb, as a noun its very dodgy...but to say someones reasoning is retarded is to say that their reasoning is restrained by something, ie, a lack of rational analysis.

    Fucktard, used as a noun, surely just means someone who is being obnoxious with little clarity of analysis.

    This is not to ignore that fact that people may find a word offensive but people may find any word offensive if it is repeatably used offensively so again, it comes down to intent, doesnt it?
    To some degree, certainly, however there is the oft-repeated posit: Intent is not magical.

    As I understand it, this is intended to remind us that certain words, used in certain ways, can be harmful even if that wasn't the intention, and we shouldn't be surprised if people are deservedly upset by them.

    One example would be the use of the word 'gay' to mean something is bad or unpleasant, as in "Man, this place is so gay." I had a lengthy and productive discussion with a young bloke who used to work with me in the pub about that use of the word. He certainly never meant it to be harmful or hurtful in any way, it was just the common parlance among his peers and he'd never thought about the ramifications of the usage. Once it was brought to his attention, though, he made a conscious decision to avoid using the word that way ever again.

    So, intent is important, but it is far from all-encompassing.
    -Geoff Rogers

    @Goldenmane3


  2. #12
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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    Historical association is obviously important. The word Slav obviously didn't have a perjorative context until it became Slave. Jew and Jewish as words have a long history of perjorative use. Nigger as a word in Australia, the Americas and Europe including colonial Africa meant a personwho could be killed or enslaved at will with no legal consequences. The reminder to peoplethat they are still black even after all this time can be meant as a historical reminder to people of color to remember their historical value within the historical (Christian) western paradigm. The n word is not becessary for this or even the word Black, if the word White is used instead to define the people who are not considered Black.
    The white pride political movements such as reclaim Australia and one nation and Amdrew Bolt think they have the right to define who is Black and who is merely a White ashamed of their whiteness who is a wannabe Black.
    "I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    I did a search on AFA on "fuckt**d". Was surprised at how often it gets used. Not as an insult directed at other board members, but certainly at groups or individuals we deem intellectually inferior to ourselves. Just as ableist, just as offensive.

    And yes, I've used the "R" word a few times in my life but I know it is offensive and that was my intent. I've grown up a bit and I wouldn't use it now.

    "Sperg" and "sperglord" don't seem to rile the autistic community often when used as perjoratives. Perhaps because they tend to be used to refer to an obnoxious type of behaviour rather than a disability.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    Quote Goldenmane said View Post

    One example would be the use of the word 'gay' to mean something is bad or unpleasant, as in "Man, this place is so gay."
    Around 17 years ago a kid i was babysitting used to use that word in that way. I explained to him that it wasn't appropriate. He was a bit young for me to explain what gay meant.
    “It's not my responsibility to be beautiful. I'm not alive for that purpose. My existence is not about how desirable you find me.” ― Warsan shire
    “Human beings have rights and are entitled to respect. Ideas, books, and beliefs don’t, and aren’t.” ― Ali A Rizvi

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    Quote 142857 said View Post
    Just as ableist, just as offensive.
    As a clarification, i don't believe any member would use the "N" word as a pejorative, or any variation of that word, regardless of the intended target. Similarly I don't believe that any member here would do the same with the "R" word or any variation of that word if they realised that it had a similar impact on the disabled.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    What I never get here is the use of "Free Speech" as an excuse for this sort of thing. None of this is to do with state prosecution of expression - it's about people responding to their free speech with critical speech of their own.

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  8. #17
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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    Quote virphen said View Post
    What I never get here is the use of "Free Speech" as an excuse for this sort of thing. None of this is to do with state prosecution of expression - it's about people responding to their free speech with critical speech of their own.
    Yup, free speech is about what you say, not how you say it.
    Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so. – Robert A. Heinlein

  9. #18
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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    Ultimately it's down to the individual using the words to decide whether ditching theim is worthwhile. If you insist on using historically loaded slurs don't be surprised when some people choose to cut you off.

    I'm a terribly politically incorrect person but I'm also an intelligent adult and choose my audience. If the rules of a specific group of people or a specific hangout are, "Just don't go there", that's fine. I won't use slurs, even if I'm not offended by them, even if I mean them jokingly. If I feel I'm expected to filter my speech to an extent I'm bothered by I choose not to hang out with those people or in that place.

    As an example of the same issue from the opposite perspective, yesterday I saw an online discussion in which someone said something very slur-y, for which they were turfed from the group. Someone within the group insisted the post be deleted due to its offensiveness to which a moderator responded, "We don't do that here, sorry". The poster was left with the choice to either accept the group as it was or leave. They chose to leave. That's fine. I've chosen to leave venues or social groups that tolerated behaviour I couldn't stand too. I've also accepted barriers on what I can say or do within certain venues and social groups because their values were less permissive than mine but not to the extent I didn't want to stick around.

    So, I guess, even if you're like me and slurs are water off a duck's back, that doesn't mean other people's preferences that you not use them aren't valid. You don't have to filter yourself either. You just don't get to stick around and continue to behave the way you've been asked not to.

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  11. #19
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    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    Quote 142857 said View Post
    I did a search on AFA on "fuckt**d". Was surprised at how often it gets used. Not as an insult directed at other board members, but certainly at groups or individuals we deem intellectually inferior to ourselves. Just as ableist, just as offensive.
    I could only find a dozen or so.

    For my part, I use that word - not as a concrete, personal noun, but either as an adjective or as an abstract noun as per GM above.

    To me, the word is quite distinct from anything to do with the mental proficiency of a person - it's rather about being obnoxious or arrogantly foolish.

    Of course, I don't use 'retard', 'tard' or 'spastic' or any other words based on someone's disability (not least because I grew up with disabled family and lived with seriously disabled people all my life), nor do I use racial slurs because I think it's ignorant and nasty.

    For me, 'fucktarded' and 'fucktardery' are not related whatsoever to a physical or mental disability - perhaps they are to others, but to me that's not what they signify at all.

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  13. #20

    Default Re: Don't Defend Disablist Drivel in the Name of Free Speech

    So we start putting restrictions on what people can say, no good can come of this. We tell children that ...Sticks and stones may break my bones (but words will never hurt me). Yet when we grow up we don't take the same advice. Where do you draw the line on restricting what people can and can't say? So you heard something that offended you... ok..be offended.

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