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Thread: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

  1. #261
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    Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

    Quote WesternGeo said View Post
    "Biblical standards" = deny all evidence supporting plainly obvious facts. Sounds about right.
    It seems that someone has given the JW's a shovel and pointed them in the direction of a hole and they have started digging themselves into a big mess;

    http://www.news.com.au/national/brea...-1227459503547

    THE only support the Jehovah's Witnesses gave the woman was to tell her to" put her tears in a skin bottle".

    It was a quote from an ancient psalm and Jehovah's Witnesses believe God will cap the tears with his love and take away a person's pain.
    In 1989 he left the family and BCG's mother told her he had abused her older sister and she found out he was abusing her younger sisters aged four and six.


    Her mother said: "I did not think he would do it again because he had become a Jehovah's Witness".
    BCG reported her own experience and that of her sisters to the elders. At several meetings with elders she had to confront her father who became angry, threatened her and said she seduced him.


    When she asked him if he was going to claim her young sisters also seduced him he said he would kill her and elders had to restrain him, she said.
    But it gets worse still, that hole just keeps getting deeper;

    The congregation excommunicated her father and he moved to Cairns but began stalking BCG.
    Despite that;

    A few years later Elder Ron de Rooy told BCG her father was "doing the right things" and would be re-instated.
    And now he starts to pull the dirt in on top of himself;

    When BCG told Mr de Rooy she would go to police, he quoted scripture about not taking brothers to court.
    That, apparently, is christianity for you, at least of the JW kind.
    From the mouth of a seven year old: "When you're you're dead, you don't go anywhere!"

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  3. #262
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    Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

    I'm a bit wet behind the ears to have not realised this would be going on in the JW cult, and then some.
    Wars begin in the minds of men.
    The UNESCO motto, in Enlightenment Now, the Case for Reason, Science, Humanism and Progress, Steven Pinker, 2018.

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  5. #263
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    Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

    Quote Strato said View Post
    I'm a bit wet behind the ears to have not realised this would be going on in the JW cult, and then some.
    Mmmmm from personal experience I can say to you this is the tip of the iceberg.
    An atheist hears a voice in their head, they're delusional.
    A theist hears a voice in their head and it's providence.
    mmm go figure

    http://www.betterhuman.org

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  7. #264
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    Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

    Quote Strato said View Post
    I'm a bit wet behind the ears to have not realised this would be going on in the JW cult, and then some.
    Honestly it wouldn't occur to me that any particular branch of the christian cult was any less capable of this behaviour than any other. The problem is, however, not the religion itself (yes I really said that), it's the culture of secrecy, self protection and insular social structure that's at fault. Any organisation with the same characteristics would have similar problems, and religions in general, but christianity in particular, have had thousands of years of such organisation to drive such behaviour into its collective psyche.
    From the mouth of a seven year old: "When you're you're dead, you don't go anywhere!"

  8. #265
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    Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

    From the same witness. http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nsw/...28-gim9rh.html

    "While my father sexually assaulted me, he quoted Bible scriptures and referred to Bible scriptures about being more obedient that he made me put up on my bedroom wall," she said.
    "He said to me while he sexually assaulted me, 'You have to be more obedient to me'."

    BCG told the commission she was aware of many others who had been sexually abused by church members.
    "I know so many victims of sexual abuse within the church whose fear of repercussion prevents them from coming forward," she said.
    I would suggest anything that comes out is only the tip of the iceberg.
    .
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    The Nizkor Project- Logical Fallacies

    Atheist: n; A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others.
    —Chaz Bufe, The American Heretic’s Dictionary

  9. #266
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    Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

    This case was covered on RN yesterday I haven't had a chance to listen to RN todaybutthey are reporting on the proceedings.
    An atheist hears a voice in their head, they're delusional.
    A theist hears a voice in their head and it's providence.
    mmm go figure

    http://www.betterhuman.org

  10. #267
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    Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

    I'm always fascinated by organisations that feel their internal rules trump common and criminal law. Religious organisations in particular seem to have been allowed to consider this a privilege. Yuck.
    "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

    History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.

  11. #268
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    Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

    Quote DanDare said View Post
    I'm always fascinated by organisations that feel their internal rules trump common and criminal law. Religious organisations in particular seem to have been allowed to consider this a privilege. Yuck.
    Hmmm, funny you should mention that, and this comes out a few days later...

    Child sex abuse royal commission: Salvation Army commissioner took year to report that officer allegedly sexually abused girl, report finds
    A Salvation Army commissioner failed to report to authorities for more than a year an allegation that one of its officers had sexually abused an eight-year-old girl, the child sex abuse royal commission has found.

    Captain Colin Haggar admitted to sexually abusing the girl in the state's central-west in 1989.

    After initially being dismissed, he was later given a position with managerial responsibility for children within the Salvation Army.

    In a report handed down on Monday, the royal commission found commissioner James Condon was required to report the allegation to the state's Ombudsman in September 2012, as soon as Captain Haggar was given the new role.

    However, Mr Condon failed to report the matter to the Ombudsman until December 2013 because, the report said, "he had received equivocal legal advice as to whether he was required to report".

    The commission found Captain Haggar should not have been promoted to the rank of lieutenant-colonel within the organisation.
    ...
    The commission said the boys who reported abuse were punished, disbelieved and accused of lying.
    *Gods* are not only a legal fiction, but a fiction in every way. Just ask the nearest hippie...

  12. #269
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    Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

    Back to the Commission's current inquiries:

    Jehovah's Witnesses let 'repentant' child sex abusers return to church
    The Jehovah’s Witnesses church let “repentant” child sex abusers return to the congregation, who were then kept in the dark about their crimes, an alleged abuse victim has claimed.

    John de Rooy, an elder in a Mareeba, Queensland, congregation in the early 1990s, was on a church judicial committee which heard a complaint from a woman who alleged her father had abused her and her three sisters.
    ...
    Last week BCG said the elders refused to accept the evidence of her sisters or her mother.

    De Rooy, who is giving evidence at a royal commission hearing into abuse in the church, said on Monday he could not remember all the details of BCG’s allegations, but he remembered believing her at the time and was “sickened” by what her father allegedly did.

    He said all he could really remember was that it was “between her word against the father” and according to the church’s biblical rules , two witnesses were needed to prove an offence.
    If one was at all cynical, it might be inferred that those *biblical rules* had been purposely constructed to stymie action needing to be taken against abusers, in all but the most egregious cases...
    De Rooy said BCG’s father was “disfellowshipped” – excommunicated – for loose conduct and lying. He had left the family home and was living with another woman.

    In an immediate appeal by BCG’s father to being thrown out he confessed to molesting his daughters, yet the decision of the elders was that he should give up his pursuit of the other woman and return to the family home.
    Yep, according to them a consensual adult relationship is a crime deserving disfellowshipping, but not child abuse, apparently. Go fucking figure.
    De Rooy said the Witnesses gave BCG, who was still a member, lots of support.

    Her father was jailed in 2004 for three years when his crimes against BCG were proved in court – more than 10 years after she went to the elders, who never reported him to secular authorities.
    Aren't there laws against that sort of thing?
    Angus Stewart SC, counsel advising the commission, asked the witness how this practice was consistent with De Rooy’s evidence the church had zero tolerance for child sex abuse.
    Indeed. One would think that there could be no answer except "well, they're not consistent". But with grotesque chutzpah:
    De Rooy said the repentant abuser would be monitored and the elders would keep an eye on him.

    He agreed that would not be possible in the home but said the family could talk to elders.
    Except for the rather obvious Catch-22 - they refused to talk to the family, when it was offered as evidence....
    *Gods* are not only a legal fiction, but a fiction in every way. Just ask the nearest hippie...

  13. #270
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    Default Re: Royal Commission into child abuse announced

    Why is it that all of the "mea culpas" given to the RC by religions appear to follow a depressingly familiar path...

    Royal commission: Jehovah's Witnesses to review approach to sex abuse allegations
    The Jehovah's Witness Church will review its approach to child sexual abuse claims after evidence before a royal commission revealed serious flaws with its current procedures.
    Terrence O'Brien​, one of the most senior members of the Jehovah's Witness Church in Australia, told the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse the organisation would consider changes to its procedures for sex abuse cases.
    Just "consider"? Is that it?
    Commission chairman Justice Peter McClellan asked Mr O'Brien whether 2000-year-old laws still applied today.
    "Is it open to the Jehovah's Witnesses to . . . ask the question whether what the Bible says was appropriate for those times remains the obligation of the 21st century?" he asked.
    A salient question for pretty much every religious pronouncement and holey book ever, methinks.
    Mr O'Brien, co-ordinator of the church's Australian Branch Committee, told the commission the organisation was "open to change".
    In evidence, he said the committee would consider the greater involvement of women in child sex abuse cases, clearer guidance for elders hearing allegations and better communication with victims and their families about their legal options.
    Mr O'Brien told the commission the church did not have a redress scheme for sex abuse victims but would consider establishing one.
    Notice the bit that wasn't in there? The "reporting to police without exception" bit? The "we finally get it that we're not a substitute for a legal process" bit? Sorta covered here:
    Vincent Toole, head of the church's Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, told the commission he would seek independent legal advice about the church's obligations to report child sex abuse to the authorities.
    Justice McClellan asked Mr Toole if he understood there was a general obligation for every citizen to report crimes to the authorities.
    "Coming to this commission has been a wake-up call for me, I can assure you," Mr Toole said.
    "Immediately [when] this particular hearing is over, we're going to instruct senior independent counsel and ask them to give us clear legal advice what the position is throughout Australia . . . any obligations that arise in relation to those laws we will certainly comply with."
    Actually, amended to "might have been covered here". Can't tell through the gobbledygook doublespeak.

    Looks like they want to try to do only what they think is legally rather than morally required... and will end up doing neither.
    *Gods* are not only a legal fiction, but a fiction in every way. Just ask the nearest hippie...

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