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Thread: Please present a compelling explanation why naturalism is true

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Please present a compelling explanation why naturalism is true

    Quote Darwinsbulldog said View Post
    Nothing is true. The sum total of the universe is nothing, it is the gradiants that count. Energy/matter uneven from quantum fluctuations. Inevitably, given a replicator, life learns to use some of those gradiants, thus creating itself. The underlying order is a natural product of the chaos. Somewhere, sometime, something falls into a pattern. But we don't notice the non-patterns. Patterns of order grow in the universe, like a crystal in solution.
    you put a lot of faith in that, don't you ?

    http://www.godsci.com/gs/new/finetuning.html

    Carbon chemistry

    Lee Smolin (a world-class physicist and a leader in quantum gravity) estimates that if the physical constants of the universe were chosen randomly, the epistemic-probability of ending up with a world with carbon chemistry is less than one part in 10^220.
    This epistemic-probability is one part in: 10000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 0.
    Epistemic Probability: 0.0000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 1

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Please present a compelling explanation why naturalism is true

    Quote jireh said View Post
    Snip
    So its a low chance... big deal... Nature isn't going to make 100% perfect copies. Doing so would be 'playing god'. Hehehe.
    There are many possiblities out there, some we do not know of yet. Patterns among patterns, connections, reactions.

    Btw Jireh... the link you provided mentions a 'god'... which 'god' are we talking about here? I assume you are talking about the Islamic god... or is it the Hindu gods... no wait... Odin and Thor, my mistake.
    I'll make mistakes, jump to conclusions, be one sided... But I am willing to learn from this and turn it into an experience rather than a delusion.

    Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Become evil.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Please present a compelling explanation why naturalism is true

    Quote Iseeyouthere said View Post
    So its a low chance... big deal... Nature isn't going to make 100% perfect copies. Doing so would be 'playing god'. Hehehe.
    There are many possiblities out there, some we do not know of yet. Patterns among patterns, connections, reactions.

    Btw Jireh... the link you provided mentions a 'god'... which 'god' are we talking about here? I assume you are talking about the Islamic god... or is it the Hindu gods... no wait... Odin and Thor, my mistake.
    I like how the poster thought they were being cool by not using scientific notation. It is also funny that they think the number they quoted is somewhat significant and "way out there". Compared to the number of games of Go that may be played in our universe alone, that number it might as well be P=1.

    Ahh the uneducated arrogant mind

    PS I'm pretty sure it was the god of the internet

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Please present a compelling explanation why naturalism is true

    Quote jireh said View Post
    you put a lot of faith in that, don't you ?

    http://www.godsci.com/gs/new/finetuning.html

    Carbon chemistry

    Lee Smolin (a world-class physicist and a leader in quantum gravity) estimates that if the physical constants of the universe were chosen randomly, the epistemic-probability of ending up with a world with carbon chemistry is less than one part in 10^220.
    This epistemic-probability is one part in: 10000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 0.
    Epistemic Probability: 0.0000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 00000 1
    A yes, the fine tuning arguement. The universe is very precise at this junction. Therefore God.

    Oh Iseeyouthere, you left out Pikkowioki, the FSM and our awesome chimera god Ganethor.
    I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.
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  5. #65
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    On reading this thread , is it really true that jireh received a seven day ban for calling a moderator "uncapable"?

    And the thinly veiled insults aimed at jireh go unsanctioned.

    Legalized bullying.

    Oh it's ok.. He's only a religious nutcase.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Please present a compelling explanation why naturalism is true

    Quote Magicziggy said View Post
    On reading this thread , is it really true that jireh received a seven day ban for calling a moderator "uncapable"?

    And the thinly veiled insults aimed at jireh go unsanctioned.

    Legalized bullying.

    Oh it's ok.. He's only a religious nutcase.
    He is known to the mods from other places Magicziggy and we don't know what he said to the mods by email or pm.
    I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.
    Mark Twain

  7. #67
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    No we don't.

    Looks pretty arbitrary to me.
    If there's a private exchange involved that should be made clear.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Please present a compelling explanation why naturalism is true

    Quote Magicziggy said View Post
    No we don't.

    Looks pretty arbitrary to me.
    If there's a private exchange involved that should be made clear.

    Feel free to lob into a discussion with a theist here or at another forum and show everyone how it should be done. Jireh isn't hard to find online and will likely happily take up a discussion with you anywhere they are not already waiting out a ban.
    This forum has three years of history of arrogant, slippery theists turning up and trying to bludgeon an argument together out of their hubris, all the while professing how humble they are and that they are a worthless sinner.

    It's not as though there is a shortage of opportunities for them to hawk their beliefs in the world. Why should they be given special consideration on an atheist forum?

  9. #69
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    Quote Sieveboy said View Post
    A yes, the fine tuning arguement. The universe is very precise at this junction. Therefore God.

    Oh Iseeyouthere, you left out Pikkowioki, the FSM and our awesome chimera god Ganethor.
    @ SB -Fine tuning you say? I thought it was the argument from Tic-tac-toe "noughts therefore crosses".

    @ Iseeyouthere- The clear implication of which is Ninkasi Sumerian goddess of beer

    @ jireh - from your understanding of Smolin' s work was allowance made for values of physical constants that would narrow the possible range of other constants when coming up with that big array of noughties? Or was it the total number of possible values for each constant in isolation?
    Last edited by AUSloth; 4th March 2012 at 08:53 AM.
    "Here kitty, kitty, kitty ..." Erwin Schrodinger

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Please present a compelling explanation why naturalism is true

    Quote Magicziggy said View Post
    On reading this thread , is it really true that jireh received a seven day ban for calling a moderator "uncapable"?
    No, it is not true. Jireh actually preached this:
    Quote jireh said View Post
    based on your ridiculous decision, biased behavior, being a uncapable moderator, and the commandment of the lord to not throw pearls to pigs, i will not spend time at this forum. It does not deserve the light, which can bring people to know the living creator, and save people of going to hell.
    Quote Magicziggy said
    And the thinly veiled insults aimed at jireh go unsanctioned.

    Legalized bullying.

    Oh it's ok.. He's only a religious nutcase.
    If my comments on Jireh's positions were thinly veiled then I apologise for not being more clear. They were not otherwise to the person though, as you will know from reading my posts.

    Quote Magicziggy said View Post
    Looks pretty arbitrary to me.
    Try doing as WLB says. What looks to you like an attack on the person is a summary representation of the rubbish doled out by Jireh, as you can find out for yourself by seeking information.
    There are no good arguments for gods.

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