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Old 14th November 2017, 04:42 PM
Darwinsbulldog's Avatar
Darwinsbulldog Darwinsbulldog is offline
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Default Re: intelligent creator

Quote:
dadmansabode said View Post
Simple Simple Simple question

the words you typed above wolty, the letters you chose, the spaces and the punctuation you placed ..... did they

1. fall where they are via random undirected chance .... or
2. where they the result of intelligent design, displaying the intent of a conceptual point



...
Let me address this fallacy of design please.

First, there are things which are indeed designed. Human beings design all sorts of things. But a lot of other things do appear to be designed. Richard Dawkins called these objects "designoid".

But what is design?

There are three components really.

1. Structure
2. Function
and
3. Purpose.

So let's use our imagination and design a chair. The purpose of the chair is to sit on [people can use them for other functions too, like stand on a chair to replace a light globe].

For a chair to be functional, it has to have a viable design or structure. A chair with only two legs might be unstable. I suppose you could have many legs on the chair, and that would work, but most folks opt for three or four legs.

Deliberate design of this type is so common is society, we take it for granted. So we just assume, if something is functional, it must have been designed, and designed with a purpose in mind. And if something is designed, it surely must have a designer. Quite reasonable so far. Even non-human animals can make and use tools. You won't find them designing space shuttles, but termite nests are pretty cool.

But there is a twist. Designoid things, which have structure and function, can arise without a designer. In other words, with no purpose. The problem is that when people see designoid things, they assume purpose without really thinking about it. Like life.

So let's see if such a system can arise naturally.

I did mention that a designer has imagination. He/she visualises the chair, and how nice it would be to sit down on one.

OK, that means we have to have a proxy that can do the job of imagination, AND something that could work in the absence of cognitive thought.

Random variation can supply this. Living things replicate in one way or another. But if random variation happened in isolation, there would be chaos, right?

So we have to have a filter, which we may agree, has some of the functionality of cognitive thought. And yes, Charles Darwin and others discovered it. It is called "Natural Selection".

Suppose for example, that an animal required a thick coat to live in a cold climate. All those animals born with thicker fur would tend to survive and reproduce more than those with thin coats. There is your filter, the environment. Moreover, animals without fur coats would tend to migrate to warmer lands, and those with coats would tend to migrate to cooler places.

Natural filters occur in the non-living world too. Evaporation of water causes clouds to form, which will eventually release their water as rain or now etc, and this water can be purer than the water on the ground. Otherwise we would all be drinking kangaroo piss or something. When water passes though some type of rock or sand, this can tend to filter and purify also. So, no magic required.

But the main fallacy in your argument is that you have to demonstrate the intelligent creator exists first, before you can credit him/her with these "designs". So make god, or intelligent aliens a reality first.
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Last edited by Darwinsbulldog; 14th November 2017 at 04:46 PM.
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