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-   -   atheism & freemasonry - can they coexist? (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=168)

matteovinci 26th January 2009 10:20 PM

atheism & freemasonry - can they coexist?
 
well i had to ask

does anyone have any experience with the combination of the two

also, any conflict between both?

in continuing from the comment i made in the thread regarding honey bees, i mentioned that walt disney was a 33rd level freemason

now surely he was not evil (as "conspiracy/truth" theorists may say), with all the joy that he brought & his name continues to bring to the world

davo 26th January 2009 11:28 PM

Re: atheism & freemasonry - can they coexist?
 
In the opinion of one atheist, me,
No.

Vonnie 26th January 2009 11:33 PM

Re: atheism & freemasonry - can they coexist?
 
While Freemasonry is not a religious group, Freemasons believe in the "Grand Architect of the Universe", i.e. god. An atheist would have to lie in order to become a Freemason. (Not that I can imagine for a minute why any atheist would want to be a Freemason... there are other groups like Apex or the Lions who do community work, don't require belief in a deity, are open to scrutiny, and don't have peculiar rituals.)

However, like most groups or organisations, there are subgroups or breakaways, and the "French Masons" are one of them which apparently do not have this prerequisite. The Freemasons do not recognise the French Masons as legitimate "brothers", though.

Vonnie

matteovinci 27th January 2009 12:06 AM

Re: atheism & freemasonry - can they coexist?
 
well i think that settles it then!
nice to see we can come to a conclusion without delusion

Evil Doer 27th January 2009 12:38 AM

Re: atheism & freemasonry - can they coexist?
 
Quote:

matteovinci said (Post 1618)
also, any conflict between both?

Surely, there's certainly conflict between it and skepticism?

matteovinci 27th January 2009 01:49 AM

Re: atheism & freemasonry - can they coexist?
 
one thing in particular aside from the belief in a supreme being

"
Loyalty to one's country is an essential qualification in Freemasonry, and only those are acceptable who cheerfully render obedience to every lawful authority. Disloyalty in any form is abhorrent to a Freemason, and is regarded as a serious Masonic offense."

that to me is worse than believing in a supreme being

Duffy 27th January 2009 02:04 PM

Re: atheism & freemasonry - can they coexist?
 
Atheists by our very nature re: 'question everything and everybody' wouldn't shouldn't couldn't be part of any group that supplied an unquestionable ideology with their membership card

wishcraft 27th January 2009 09:34 PM

Re: atheism & freemasonry - can they coexist?
 
Well really, I find the concept of a pyramid scheme rather amusing, in fact I once had 2 men - infact stand at my door; dress as badly made out transsexuals brandishing a baseball bat and a crow bar, and threatenly menanced that I had to join the free masons.

I gave them a fake pseduo name - simon anthony roberts. From that moment on I was arrested, charged and several time imprisons in brain jail under this false name. Infact I went to QLD and lived as they saw fit and still for the first time in that town the fake name still was in occurance.

Personally when you find groups like that which are ment to be "secret" posting autonomously with nanoscience sites like something is trying to be "above top secret" on a global scale (the community effort site for this).. I find a bemusement in the scale of how bad a pyramid scheme like that is; especially with building like the one on castlereigh (I think) that looks like an upside down phalyic representation of...

It is something like this when they have single-handed themselves a corruption red tape line in the basis of emails containing the wrong name details and completely flawed psychoanalysis of myself (I did do quiet a few years acting classes).. Which make my time in australia quiet amusing.

Personally I don't think with a flaw like the on of ancient egyptions and pyramid schemes which walked themselves out of existence in a basis of deity and the supernatural - the ground you walk needs to be solid or you will fall through it, basis of none factual reporting systems as you can see means that there is no foundation to start with, it is a rigger of supisticion

Sharpie44 27th February 2009 06:19 AM

Re: atheism & freemasonry - can they coexist?
 
I found this forum by accident and as a Freemason I think I need to set you people straight.
First off yes most definitely atheism and Freemasonry can coexist. The founding fathers were Freemasons and were hard core secularists as am I. It is essential to keep religion out of our schools and our politics. A very well known Freemason by the name of Thomas Jefferson said “It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. “ I have supported the atheist movement for a long time and am disturbed that you people do not know the roal the Freemasons have played in allowing a secularist movement to happen. America was set up as the first secularist state by Freemasons. Everyone is Free to believe or not believe whatever they want and any good Freemason would defend your right not too believe as strongly as they would defend their own right too believe. I personally am a deist and am opposed to many aspects of organized religion.
wishcraft you are a either a liar or those were not freemasons. Joining the Freemasons takes time and effort on your part and no Freemason will just come up and ask you to join let alone attempt to force you. That would be against the fundamentals of freemasonry. If you wanted to join you would have to get in contact with a lodge and go through a process of evaluation before joining. Also considering the vast amount of money the Freemasons give to charity every year, I fail to see how it is a scheme of any kind. There isn’t much money involved in joining or being a part of the Masons, mostly just going to fund rising dinners and things like that. Those normally go to charities or for operating costs and renovations for the lodge.
Like Jefferson I have no problem with atheists and I have many atheist friends. I think you would be hard pressed to find a Freemason that wants to put down atheists. BTW: There is no gold, the illuminati doesn’t exist, and we are not a religion. You’re not even supposed to discuss religion in a lodge meeting probably because we have many people of different faiths.

davo 27th February 2009 09:57 AM

Re: atheism & freemasonry - can they coexist?
 
good points Sharpie44, I am still evaluating my stance, as I have limited information on the current status of freemasonry, but point you at some issues as I see it.

I will also point you at http://notthe.us as I find the us-centric approach of many of the folk from your country quite annoying in discussions. There is more to the world than your country.

My assumptions are based on the Masonic temples, the churches, in 1717, a United Grand Lodge was formed in London, using Dr. John Anderson's Constitution to standardize the rituals and practices. Anderson had stipulated in his Constitution that:
A Mason is obliged, by his tenure, to obey the Moral Law: and if he rightly understands the Art, he will never be a stupid Atheist nor an irreligious libertine....
This has carried thru to today, and I also point you to the United Grand Lodge of Englands website :

http://www.ugle.org.uk/masonry/freem...d-religion.htm
"Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. It demands of its members a belief in a Supreme Being but provides no system of faith of its own. "

"The names used for the Supreme Being enable men of different faiths to join in prayer (to God as each sees Him) without the terms of the prayer causing dissention among them.

There is no separate Masonic God; a Freemason's God remains the God of the religion he professes.

Freemasons meet in common respect for the Supreme Being, but He remains Supreme in their individual religions, and it is no part of Freemasonry to attempt to join religions together. There is therefore no composite Masonic God. "

"The Bible, referred to by Freemasons as the Volume of the Sacred Law, is always open at every Masonic meeting."

"Freemasonry is far from indifferent to religion. Without interfering in religious practice it expects each member to follow his own faith, and to place above all other duties his duty to God, by whatever name He is known. Its moral teachings are acceptable to all religions.

Freemasonry is thus a supporter of religion."
Whereas Freemasonry can be argued as Secular, it is not Atheist.


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