Surrogacy

[flipper]

As of 1 June 2010 altruistic surrogacy is legal in QLD. I'm interested in peoples opinion of the ethical perspectives of altruistic surrogacy whether it be to a heterosexual or homosexual couple.

Hypothetically, what are the ethical perspectives on offering to act as a surrogate for a couple that had exhausted all other avenues to building their own family.

There was recently a news article in QLD about a homosexual couple who had a child via surrogacy that created something of a stir.

[Goldenmane]

As of 1 June 2010 altruistic surrogacy is legal in QLD. I'm interested in peoples opinion of the ethical perspectives of altruistic surrogacy whether it be to a heterosexual or homosexual couple.

Hypothetically, what are the ethical perspectives on offering to act as a surrogate for a couple that had exhausted all other avenues to building their own family.

There was recently a news article in QLD about a homosexual couple who had a child via surrogacy that created something of a stir.

Heya flipper,

What's 'altruistic surrogacy'?

[Logic please]

Heya flipper,

What's 'altruistic surrogacy'?
Wiki definition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogacy):
The arrangement is called a commercial surrogacy if the carrier gets compensated for carrying and delivering the child (besides medical and other reasonable expenses). If the carrier receives no compensation (besides medical and other reasonable expenses) for carrying and delivering the child, the arrangement is sometimes referred to as an altruistic surrogacy,[1] (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/#cite_note-gloss-0) which is generally done by a friend for the intended parent(s).

As of 1 June 2010 altruistic surrogacy is legal in QLD. I'm interested in peoples opinion of the ethical perspectives of altruistic surrogacy whether it be to a heterosexual or homosexual couple.

Hypothetically, what are the ethical perspectives on offering to act as a surrogate for a couple that had exhausted all other avenues to building their own family.

There was recently a news article in QLD about a homosexual couple who had a child via surrogacy that created something of a stir.
I have absolutely no ethical problem with altruistic surrogacy. IMO, it's simply a logical extension of IVF and other reproductive technologies. :)

[Goldenmane]

So... providing a womb to incubate a fetus for someone else who desperately wants a kid, but can't manage it without that assistance?

Provided it's done intelligently, I see no reason to object.

I don't: have a womb, desire more kids, or need a surrogate; as such, I may be unqualified to comment. I can see where some issues and potential problems may arise, but consider them covered in the above "done intelligently" clause.

[Senexis]

Generally +1 to Goldenmane, although I'd add the following:

That the original post refers to homosexuality twice is disgusting to me. Nothing against the poster (who's just reporting the thing), it's the fact it's an issue, or rather, made an issue by small-minded primitive bigots. They can all go get fucked. Perhaps if they're busy getting laid they might mind their own fucking business.

[flipper]

For surrogacy to be "legal" in QLD it must be done under a surrogacy arrangement as defined in the Surrogacy Act 2010 which states that when entering into a surrogacy arrangemt all parties must attend councelling and have legal representation as well so therefore there should be no way that some one could enter into a surrogacy arrangement except "intelligently".

Interesting though that a surrogacy arrangement is not enforceable except for the costs to the birth mother.

I am sorry if people are offended by homosexuality, but I included it because it is specifically provided for in the Act:

14 Meaning of medical or social need for a surrogacy
arrangement and eligible woman
(1) For an application for a parentage order—
(a) if there is 1 intended parent under the surrogacy
arrangement—there is a medical or social need for the
surrogacy arrangement if the intended parent is a man or
an eligible woman; or
(b) if there are 2 intended parents under the surrogacy
arrangement—there is a medical or social need for the
surrogacy arrangement if the intended parents are—
(i) a man and an eligible woman; or
(ii) 2 men; or
(iii) 2 eligible women.

additionally one of the first arrangments enacted under the act was to 2 men.

There is a great deal of debate on the ethical appropriateness of allowing surrogacy for same-sex couples more so than for surrogacy for a male/female or even a single parent.

My own opinion is that surrogacy under the act is perfectly acceptable and a truly altruisitc act. However, I am undecided on the issue of surrogacy for same-sex couples. Not that I believe that there would be any implications that would arise from the parenting by same-sex couples but the stigmatism that would be attached to such a child by society could indeed have serious implications for the well-being of the child. That being said, is it ethical to exclude same-sex couples from surrogacy arrangements on the basis that wider society is not yet equipped to deal with that type of arrangement.

[Logic]

Not that I believe that there would be any implications that would arise from the parenting by same-sex couples but the stigmatism that would be attached to such a child by society could indeed have serious implications for the well-being of the child. That being said, is it ethical to exclude same-sex couples from surrogacy arrangements on the basis that wider society is not yet equipped to deal with that type of arrangement.


Rather than discriminate against same sex couples by trying to prevent any stigmatism occuring by denying them the same rights, the elements of society that may try to stigmatise the child need to be re-educated instead.

[Mjt]

My own opinion is that surrogacy under the act is perfectly acceptable and a truly altruisitc act. However, I am undecided on the issue of surrogacy for same-sex couples. Not that I believe that there would be any implications that would arise from the parenting by same-sex couples but the stigmatism that would be attached to such a child by society could indeed have serious implications for the well-being of the child. That being said, is it ethical to exclude same-sex couples from surrogacy arrangements on the basis that wider society is not yet equipped to deal with that type of arrangement.
Society has always found some poor bugger to harass. Its not so long ago that children of mixed colour bore the brunt (not that long at all let me tell you from experience) Society will get over it. I am hopeful that society is quickly growing out of the same old tired same-sex debates that seem to pop up when any discussion of family takes place. Fear for the children seems to me to be an excuse to perpetuate discrimination with no need for true justification.

[Goldenmane]

Indeed.

When people pull out the old "but the children will be picked on!" argument, my response is simply this:

They will only be picked on if you and others of your ilk teach your kids to fucking pick on them, so man the fuck up and take responsibility.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

I agree with what Goldenmane has mentioned. The problem with "kids will be picked on" is that the kids will be picked on if people are tought to pick on the kids. Parents need to learn to stop teaching their kids to pick on others; sure they may not want them to be bullies in the first pace, but the way they go about instilling religious "values" in the children makes this a problem in the first place.

As for surrogacy, I really have no problem with it - so long as it isn't forced. If it is a choice, then what people want to do is their business, so long as they are capable of looking after the kids themselves.

[Jaar-Gilon]

Who is surrogacy hurting?

Just another area where people who's business it isn't want to stick their fucking opinions in!

[cyclist]

Parents need to learn to stop teaching their kids to pick on others; sure they may not want them to be bullies in the first pace, but the way they go about instilling religious "values" in the children makes this a problem in the first place.

I know that this is a slight derail, but I thought that it would be worth while to mention.

Kids are imitators, they learn through watching and copying. So it isn't that parents "teach" their children to pick on others, it is as simple as the parent saying within hearing of the child "fucking homos" or similar.

The child then seems the homosexual couple as bad, and as a result the child must be the same.

Yes, we need to educate the children, but we also need to break down the bigotry in the parents as well.

Back on topic, I have no issues with the idea of surrogacy, it seems that the law is set up to ensure that people aren't profiting from it, which is always a good thing.

The only question I have is what sort of access (if any) would the birth mother have to the child? They may not be a genetic parent of the child, but they would still have a connection of some description to the child.

James

[Logic please]

Rather than discriminate against same sex couples by trying to prevent any stigmatism occuring by denying them the same rights, the elements of society that may try to stigmatise the child need to be re-educated instead.
Society has always found some poor bugger to harass. Its not so long ago that children of mixed colour bore the brunt (not that long at all let me tell you from experience) Society will get over it. I am hopeful that society is quickly growing out of the same old tired same-sex debates that seem to pop up when any discussion of family takes place. Fear for the children seems to me to be an excuse to perpetuate discrimination with no need for true justification.

Indeed.

When people pull out the old "but the children will be picked on!" argument, my response is simply this:

They will only be picked on if you and others of your ilk teach your kids to fucking pick on them, so man the fuck up and take responsibility.

I agree with what Goldenmane has mentioned. The problem with "kids will be picked on" is that the kids will be picked on if people are tought to pick on the kids. Parents need to learn to stop teaching their kids to pick on others; sure they may not want them to be bullies in the first pace, but the way they go about instilling religious "values" in the children makes this a problem in the first place.

As for surrogacy, I really have no problem with it - so long as it isn't forced. If it is a choice, then what people want to do is their business, so long as they are capable of looking after the kids themselves.
These.

Anyone saying (to the effect of), "I wouldn't be bigoted against <insert marginalised group here> if they did/didn't <insert rationalisations for bigotry here>" is, in technical terms, full of shyte. It's avoiding responsibility for their own reprehensible behavoiur, and looking to duckshove it onto the victims.

The only real reason anyone has for being a bigot, is because they want to be. On that basis, if surrogate children of gay parents were subject to bullying or bigotry, that would not mean that allowing gay surrogacy was the problem to be solved. That problem, and any solutions, resides with the bigots and bullies - entirely. :mad:

[Senexis]

I am sorry if people are offended by homosexuality, but I included it because it is specifically provided for in the Act
If that's a response to me, one of us is confused. I'm not offended by homosexuality, nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm disgusted that certain folks make it an issue where it isn't one, purely because of their own bigotry, however they justify it.

[Lord Blackadder]

Who cares if a kid has a mum and dad, two mums or two dads. As long as the kid is loved, wanted and cared for, educated and brought up to be a healthy, productive member of society, why does it matter how they were conceived or who their parents are.

Beleive me, any couple (hetrosexual or homosexual) who goes through the long, convoluted, expensive and agonising process of IVF/surrogacy wants a child. They haven't made this decision on a whim or for a laugh. These are the parents we need to be raising children - they actually want kids and will give them just as much love and care as any other good parent would.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Hell yeah LBA - I reckon if I was brought up by gay parents, by now I'd be proud of it, and I'd be using it as a booster to help support gay marriage and what not. :)

[abbafreak]

Yet more in the news, (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/lifestyle/lifematters/lucy-has-a-gay-dad-and-a-tummy-mummy-20110122-1a0jk.html) with a single, gay man and his kid featured.

Lovely story to tell his daughter. Way beats "I had a few too many one night at the pub and nine months later there you were."