Help..

[Ozziebloke]

I'm currently locked in a debate with a believer about a few things..

This person is claiming that the discovery of a boat in Turkey believed to be Noahs ark is proof that God & the bible are true.

Can someone help me with some info to negate this claim??

Thanks.

[davo]

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/ark-hoax/jammal.html

It is a known hoax perpetrated by a skeptic!!

[loubert]

the onus is on him/her to prove it.. not on you to disprove it

[davo]

wytDC-aImao

cq0dBFqJZc0

[davo]

loubert is right, however knowing some of the info about it is intersting

[SchizoDeluxe]

I'm currently locked in a debate with a believer about a few things..

This person is claiming that the discovery of a boat in Turkey believed to be Noahs ark is proof that God & the bible are true.

Can someone help me with some info to negate this claim??

Thanks.

The operative word there being "believed".

[youngmoigle]

I'm currently locked in a debate with a believer about a few things..

This person is claiming that the discovery of a boat in Turkey believed to be Noahs ark is proof that God & the bible are true.

Can someone help me with some info to negate this claim??

Thanks.

It is thought that Gilgamesh was an Assyrian king who lived in the 27th century BCE.

The oldest known version of the Epic of Gigamesh has been dated to the 7th century BCE.

It says that a god named Ea warned Utnapishtim that the world was about to be destroyed by a flood. He was told to build an ark and take on board his family, beasts of the field, and wild animals.

The flood lasted seven days and then the ark got stuck on the top of Mount Nisir.

Utnapishtim sent out a dove to look for land, then a swallow - but both returned. Then a raven was released and it did not return (so Utnapishtim knew the water was subsiding, because the raven had landed somewhere).

Utnapishim immediately offered sacrifices and the gods "gathered around like flies."

The complete story is here: http://www.piney-2.com/Gilgamesh.html

My guess is that Christians will not be impressed by this story (and might even invoke "diabolical mimicry" as the explanation) but it is certainly enough to convince any normal person that the story of Noah is not only a myth, but a second-hand myth at that.

[OzAtheist]

Interestingly I have previously heard a similar story to the one in Davo's Penn & Teller video.

I heard this story when I was a Christian at a bible study class! I don't remember the full details, just remember that I was told there was proof of an historical flood, albeit a small localized flood (at least small and localized compared to the whole world!). The discussion also pointed out that at the time the "whole world" to the people writing the OT was quite a small part of the world (heck western civilisation only found this place a few hundred years ago!). Thus the phrase "2 animals of each kind" meant 2 animals of each kind that were in that area, amounting to a few camels, goats and chickens.

The underlying premise was that christians could believe the flood story, if they understood it in the context of when and where it happened. God was still a nice guy by helping Noah survive the flood (even if it was only a localized one, though one in which many other people perished and lost all their livestock). At the time (a young teenager) this made a lot more sense to me and helped me believe in the bible.

However, when hearing other christians oppose the above theory and state the flood meant the whole world and every living thing was on the ark, my maturing mind came to the conclusion that if people who are essentially on the same side couldn't agree with this story then the whole thing was probably BS. Pity more religious people don't come to this same conclusion.

At the time I'd never heard of apologetics, looking back I see I personally met one.

[davo]

talking of apologists, check out fakesagan 'shredding' an apologist on youtube. Well worth the watch.

the vid it was in 'reply' too, however just tedious jumping around trying to redefine logic (we have all seen this stuff before)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvh2Wj61uCE

total pwnage :

atMF1KRltBc

[Ozziebloke]

Thanks for the feedback guys... Good stuff.

My friend came back with the classic believers line,,, "With God, all things are possible"


I guess that means logic has won the debate..

[Protium]

yeah... except grow a limb back :D

[TÐöer]

That was very impressive. Yay fakesagan.:)

The way he describes an apologise, makes me think of people who falls for Pyramid schemes and other con schemes.

These people, will not reason, as to where the profits are coming from, but rather create excuses to make what they are doing sound honest, hoping others will join them.

I think at the end, fakesagan was getting rather worked up. I would reply to the argument that the logic we know does not apply as we are living in an illusion is this; well, even if we are living in an illusion, we still need to obey to the rules of that illusion. Since that works. And we do not know what other logic is beyond that.

[davo]

On the subject of noahs ark, my favourite aussie christian has an awesome comment :)

XT4bsbiReDU

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

On the subject of noahs ark, my favourite aussie christian has an awesome comment :)

He's bloody awesome, Davo. Where did you dig him up?

[davo]

He's bloody awesome, Davo. Where did you dig him up?

I found him with a posting reply to the blasphemy challenge, and I thought at first he was fair dinkum .. check this out :

4xEhRdUQHOk

Of course he is! ;) he's my favourite christian now, love his work ;)

http://www.youtube.com/user/1GOD1JESUS

there is also another great aussie cartoonist here :

http://www.youtube.com/user/Yakovich

check their listings of videos (the yak one has a viewer (http://www.youtube.com/user/Stralya2000 another atheist ) thanking him as the main vid on the page, but check the vids underneath)

Aussie atheists on youtube are awesome, and everywhere :)